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HELP Please - Seriouse Advice needed re: job loss, chapter 7 and 401k withdraw

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    HELP Please - Seriouse Advice needed re: job loss, chapter 7 and 401k withdraw

    I had to go out on medical leave in October, Short term disability (STD) only approved a months worth of pay but due to my FMLA, I was granted 12 weeks out with my job held. Unfortunately I needed to take the entire 12 weeks, when it was time for me to return to work, my doctor still wanted me out for another 6 weeks. To make a long story short, I resigned from my job of 9 years.

    My husband and I seperated in July but on October 1, he moved back into our townhouse and my son (4 years old) and I moved into an apartment (my leave was sudden and first day out of work was Oct 28, I believe) so when I rented the apartment I fully expected to be working.

    I am in severe debt, mainly credit cards easily adding up to about 35 -40K. I have no income and haven't for months now. My parents have helped as much as possible, I took a loan from them and then they just would give me money to pay the rent, etc... and now they are in a really hard spot especially since I stopped paying my personal loan back to them (they had taken out a second mortgage for that). My parents are older, my dad is 78 ad going in for double bypass heart surgery next Friday and as he told my sister, they have no "padding" if something were to happen.

    I know that my only option is to file Chapter 7 and I need to research the cheapest but best way to do this but here is my main question. Now that I am seperated from the company, I am able to withdraw my 401K, I already have two loans out on it and after taxes i would end up with about 24K. I need money to pay my rent for February and bills that are way past due and my parents really need money to survive, they are both retired. I know I can put the money in an IRA and withdraw as needed and it is my understanding that it cannot be touched by bankruptcy, correct? But what if I straight withdrawl the 24K for living expenses and give the remaining to my parents for the loan repayment? Will I still be elidgeable to file bankruptcy or will withdrawing the 401K mean they would require me to put the money towards the debt? I'm barely putting food on the table. My husband (we are seperated) gives me money when he is able but he is also struggling very much w/ just the mortgage and regular bills. I have our son 90% of the time so I'm trying to keep the both of us fed, cleaned, warm, etc...

    So ideally, what I would like to do is withdraw the 24K from 401K, keep some for rent, heat, water, etc... for at least two maybe three months and repay my parents the rest toward the loan I owe them, which is a second mortgage on their house and file Chapter 7 all around the same time. Is this possible. Is my only option to put the money in an IRA so that it doesn't get touched. I don't know what to do. My doctor still isn't giving me the ok to work, she said we will reevaluate in another 2 weeks. I'm dealing with alot of health issues, depression, severe migraines, insomnia, falling asleep during the day while driving, drinking coffee and dropping it everywhere and it goes on. So, I am not fit to work right now, I think alot of it is due to the emotional stress of my seperation with my husband, we have been together 10 years and have a 4 year old.

    Anyway, there's my story. I'm very sorry that it's so long but if you can take the time to read it and give me some solid advice, I would very much appreciate it.

    Right now I'm at the point where I'm planning to go apply for food stamps tomorrow which is something I thought I would never do but I am literally barely able to food on the table.

    Any advise is appreciated. Thank you in advance.

    #2
    Before you touch that 401(k), look in your phone book under lawyers, find one that gives free initial consultations, Thursday morning make some phone calls and get an appointment. Take with you a complete listing of all your debts, monthly payments, sources of any income, list of assets and your most recent federal and state tax return. You will be advised exactly where you stand and what you can and cannot do. If you touch that 401(k) you may be sorry so see a lawyer before you do anything further. I suggest 2 to 3 consultations if possible for you.
    _________________________________________
    Filed 5 Year Chapter 13: April 2002
    Early Buy-Out: April 2006
    Discharge: August 2006

    "A credit card is a snake in your pocket"

    Comment


      #3
      Welcome to the forum - you're in the right place to get lots of support & info. Sounds like you're in a really tough spot - definitely, take care of your health!

      It's understandable to want to pay back Mom & Dad, but anything within 12 months of filing to them will be considered an "insider" payment, and the Trustee can go after them to get the money back.

      Another thing to consider, I believe I've read on hear that 401k withdrawals are counted as income, although that may not be an issue for you in filing BK if you haven't been working, it might be an issue for getting food stamps.
      BKForum Blog: The Journey

      sigpic

      Comment


        #4
        Big question- when do you need to file for BK? If you withdraw from your 401k and pay your parents back; while not paying other "creditors" that is a prefrential payment - and they can go after you parents when you file. I believe the look back on insider payments is 12 months. So you'd have to wait that amount of time to file. Or you can file for BK, list your parents- and pay them with your 401k money after everything is closed. Good luck!


        Originally posted by asdixon1 View Post
        I had to go out on medical leave in October, Short term disability (STD) only approved a months worth of pay but due to my FMLA, I was granted 12 weeks out with my job held. Unfortunately I needed to take the entire 12 weeks, when it was time for me to return to work, my doctor still wanted me out for another 6 weeks. To make a long story short, I resigned from my job of 9 years.

        My husband and I seperated in July but on October 1, he moved back into our townhouse and my son (4 years old) and I moved into an apartment (my leave was sudden and first day out of work was Oct 28, I believe) so when I rented the apartment I fully expected to be working.

        I am in severe debt, mainly credit cards easily adding up to about 35 -40K. I have no income and haven't for months now. My parents have helped as much as possible, I took a loan from them and then they just would give me money to pay the rent, etc... and now they are in a really hard spot especially since I stopped paying my personal loan back to them (they had taken out a second mortgage for that). My parents are older, my dad is 78 ad going in for double bypass heart surgery next Friday and as he told my sister, they have no "padding" if something were to happen.

        I know that my only option is to file Chapter 7 and I need to research the cheapest but best way to do this but here is my main question. Now that I am seperated from the company, I am able to withdraw my 401K, I already have two loans out on it and after taxes i would end up with about 24K. I need money to pay my rent for February and bills that are way past due and my parents really need money to survive, they are both retired. I know I can put the money in an IRA and withdraw as needed and it is my understanding that it cannot be touched by bankruptcy, correct? But what if I straight withdrawl the 24K for living expenses and give the remaining to my parents for the loan repayment? Will I still be elidgeable to file bankruptcy or will withdrawing the 401K mean they would require me to put the money towards the debt? I'm barely putting food on the table. My husband (we are seperated) gives me money when he is able but he is also struggling very much w/ just the mortgage and regular bills. I have our son 90% of the time so I'm trying to keep the both of us fed, cleaned, warm, etc...

        So ideally, what I would like to do is withdraw the 24K from 401K, keep some for rent, heat, water, etc... for at least two maybe three months and repay my parents the rest toward the loan I owe them, which is a second mortgage on their house and file Chapter 7 all around the same time. Is this possible. Is my only option to put the money in an IRA so that it doesn't get touched. I don't know what to do. My doctor still isn't giving me the ok to work, she said we will reevaluate in another 2 weeks. I'm dealing with alot of health issues, depression, severe migraines, insomnia, falling asleep during the day while driving, drinking coffee and dropping it everywhere and it goes on. So, I am not fit to work right now, I think alot of it is due to the emotional stress of my seperation with my husband, we have been together 10 years and have a 4 year old.

        Anyway, there's my story. I'm very sorry that it's so long but if you can take the time to read it and give me some solid advice, I would very much appreciate it.

        Right now I'm at the point where I'm planning to go apply for food stamps tomorrow which is something I thought I would never do but I am literally barely able to food on the table.


        Any advise is appreciated. Thank you in advance.
        Filed Pro Se: 10/16/2009
        341 Scheduled: 11/23/2009
        Last Day for Objections: 1/22/2010
        Discharged: 1/28/2010

        Comment


          #5
          Conventional wisdom is to hold off filing BK as long as possible because you only get one crack at it every 8 years. The credit cards are annoying but they can't hurt you. Think about what you need to survive and only withdraw that much and only if you have no other options. I'm not sure rolling to an IRA makes much difference, if you have no income the taxes should be minimal.
          We are all having problems here and we're here to help if we can, you are not alone.
          filed chapter 13..confirmed...converted to chapter 7...DISCHARGED!

          Comment


            #6
            Taking all of the money out of your 401k would probably be a very BAD move to make before filing bk. That whole 24k would count as income received during the 6 month period which could put you above the means test. Also like others have said, the trustee could go after your parents to give back the money paid to them and have it split up between your creditors. You should definetly talk to an attorney.

            Comment


              #7
              You might not be in a position to file BK anyway. Filing BK only gets rid of past debt, it will not help with the income problem you are experiencing. You may want to wait to file when you actually get through this current problem you are having with your health.

              Right now your health comes first. The BK can wait. Taking the money out of your 401k is considered income for the BK filing. Paying your parents within a year is considered an insider payment and will create issues for you when you choose to file. At this point it might be better for you to plan the next 12 months as if you were going to file sometime thereafter. So the moves you do today will not adversly affect your future filing. This is the time to stop paying all credit cards, unsecured debt. Figure out how to just survive the basics until you get your steady income coming back into your household.
              Filed CH 7 9/30/2008
              Discharged Jan 5, 2009! Closed Jan 18, 2009

              I am not an attorney. None of my advice is legal advice in any way..

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
                Before you touch that 401(k), look in your phone book under lawyers, find one that gives free initial consultations, Thursday morning make some phone calls and get an appointment. Take with you a complete listing of all your debts, monthly payments, sources of any income, list of assets and your most recent federal and state tax return. You will be advised exactly where you stand and what you can and cannot do. If you touch that 401(k) you may be sorry so see a lawyer before you do anything further. I suggest 2 to 3 consultations if possible for you.
                I second this. Now is the time to get good advice. Before you think about touching your 401K, know that it could affect your ability to file Ch. 7 and could also have some painful financial consequences for you when you do your taxes for 2009 (see link below):

                Comment


                  #9
                  If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                  Comment

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