Did my ex girlfrield commit fraud? Should I report or...?

[CarrieOakey]

No, no, I get that - and I'm sorry if I came across as somewhat less than sparkly

I'm just hugely against - I think I've seen it too many times - parents filing for 50/50 (or the closest their state will allow) solely to reduce their support obligation, and not in the best interest of the kids.

I honestly don't believe OP has that intention ...he obviously wants the best for kiddo. Heck, if every divorced/separated parent would just do that - do what's best for the kids - the world would be much better off!

[B65]

The poster

was saying he could not afford that high of a payment, I was just throwing all options at him.

[CarrieOakey]

Do you live near them? what about shared custody so support is negated?

Surely folk would never go for shared custody just to get support reduced, right?

I mean that's not what you're suggesting, right? Cos frankly, that would be absolutely appalling.

Please tell me it's just the lack of caffeine in my system?

[B65]

well

firstly your ex getting rid of 100k worth of debt is only good news for your childs future. His well being and peace of mind especially if your ex has learnt lessons from the chapter 7 and starts to build a strong future for your son. What if you did have it overturned and she had to then take that debt back on? Not great for your son and at the end of the day he is the most important part of all this.

As for what you pay...... I would go to a courts and get a true indication of your ex's earnings now.. what she is earning as of today, the amount that goes in her bank account every month.... That is what should count... then ask for your child support to be modified they will then look at her current earnings and yours and make an aggreement. What they say is what goes I am afraid.
I have been on both sides, My hubby raised my stepdaughter( we both did) her mother left her with us at age 2, we never got a penny for her... at 14 she turned up wanted money and went to court and got her back and we had to pay her a fortune in child support for the next 4 years..even though she had not paid us in years. On the flip side I divorced my ex hubby who was very wealthy and took my 2 children, because he lived and worked overseas I could not get a court order for support.

The courts are not fair but all you can do is get a true income from the pair of you for now and do what the courts say. and at the end of the day count your blessings your child is healthy, well and in your life... it is only money and it could be so much worse.

Do you live near them? what about shared custody so support is negated?

[newbeginning]

I agree with many here...i would not report her transgressions. It could make her AND your child's life more difficult and that isn't what you want.

Be there for your child!!!!!!

[Flamingo]

ROFLOL..."Marry her." I really had to chuckle. We do so much better as just friends. Really. Did I mention the remaining $100K of non-dischargeable debt? Financial problems are the biggest source of divorce...wouldn't be a good start...even with a pre-nup...

I like what you say. And I'm considering many options (including the varied ones on this board). Some say "forget it" and some say confront her but "bide my time."

Any statute of limitations I need to keep in mind for this matter?

Thanks for the chuckle and the sage advice.

You are between a rock and a hard place. If you do what you feel you should do, it could create more issues; if you don't do anything, it will weigh on your brain for eternity. If you never found out this information or had access to the information via PACER, what would you be doing? She is her own person, you are your own person. She does not want you to know certain things she does, and I am sure you don't want her to know certain things you do and it appears the child is not suffering from lack of funds or care. If you feel you are paying too much child support and felt that before you saw all the information as to her BK, you can always file for a reduction for child support and see what happens and what information she provides compared to what you now have. Otherwise, you could be in for a big confrontation when she finds out you know all this and snooped out her case via PACER. As to reporting her for fraud? Same thing - big confrontation. You have to decide if calling her out on this situation is worth it in the long run or if it bothers you as to what she did, you can find out if you can somehow anonymously report the matter to the Trustee for review.

Again, marrying her and keeping quiet is the easiest way out but after she eliminated $100,000 of debt, I very much see your point...I would not want to be in your shoes - best of luck to you!

[LuciluS]

I found a post where a person asked if child support is income. Very Interesting.

http://www.bkforum.com/archive/index.php/t-34174.html

Luci

[oneklub]

(I'm sorry, it's late for me and it's entirely possible that I missed a vital bit of information!)

Please, please, please - if you haven't already got all of this established through the courts, do so. Your visitation, your CS payments all need to be done properly; this protects both of you. I'm still not convinced that you'd be successful in getting a downwards modification, but that's certainly something you could ask an attorney.

(btw, I'm not implying - even loosely! - that she would try to screw you in the future, but such things have been known to happen, specially if, as and when a new love interest appears on the scene with one of the parties...)

And if it IS all sorted out? Play by the rules; if she ever does deny you your court-ordered visitation, you file for contempt. I realise this is going far beyond the boundaries of a bk forum, but if you take only one thing from this thread, be it this: you don't have any rights unless and until you have 'em established and exercised

Take care and good luck, regardless of what happens!

Thank you. I appreciate your straightforward comments. And I hear you well about having my rights "established and exercised."

[CarrieOakey]

(I'm sorry, it's late for me and it's entirely possible that I missed a vital bit of information!)

Please, please, please - if you haven't already got all of this established through the courts, do so. Your visitation, your CS payments all need to be done properly; this protects both of you. I'm still not convinced that you'd be successful in getting a downwards modification, but that's certainly something you could ask an attorney.

(btw, I'm not implying - even loosely! - that she would try to screw you in the future, but such things have been known to happen, specially if, as and when a new love interest appears on the scene with one of the parties...)

And if it IS all sorted out? Play by the rules; if she ever does deny you your court-ordered visitation, you file for contempt. I realise this is going far beyond the boundaries of a bk forum, but if you take only one thing from this thread, be it this: you don't have any rights unless and until you have 'em established and exercised

Take care and good luck, regardless of what happens!

[oneklub]

The care she's giving your son should not be contingent on the amount of money she receives from you. I hope that is never the case.

I think it's honorable, however, to contribute as much as you can to help in his raising. Not to "pay her" for taking care of him, but because it's the right thing to do -- to support him in every way you can, as much as you can.

It's obvious from your posts that you are a compassionate person and you wish the best for my son. Thank you. Human life is indeed priceless.

[oneklub]

If you expect to have any form of a civilized working relationship with the mother of your child it's wise to stay quiet. It's tempting to take a cheap shot at the mother and report her but if you truly have the best interests of your child at heart let it go. If not expect to battle the woman over every issue for the next eighteen years.

That doesn't mean forget it. Keep good records of what you found on PACER and what you have paid. That info may come in handy down the road to fight a custody battle or if you need to renegotiate child support payments. Save the ammo until you truly need it.

Got it. Whatever I do, keep records. Now that is a point that several people have made. Thanks. We will need to renegotiate at some point.

[BkinTX]

The care she's giving your son should not be contingent on the amount of money she receives from you. I hope that is never the case.

I think it's honorable, however, to contribute as much as you can to help in his raising. Not to "pay her" for taking care of him, but because it's the right thing to do -- to support him in every way you can, as much as you can.

[oneklub]

I'm not trying to bust your chops, I promise, and it is good to keep track of all this like you've been doing in case it becomes an issue in the future.

Unless it's causing you a great deal of hardship right now, I would let it go since you did say she is taking excellent care of your child.

Fair enough. I take your point. It IS a good one. I'd have to decide, based on her bankruptcy numbers, how much I am willing to pay over the needs of my son to keep...wait...there is no reason she should stop taking excellent care of her/our son if I pay less but still enough.

She could get upset and not allow me to see him anymore. That, of course, is illegal, though.

[oneklub]

Simply put:

Any money you paid her outside of court-ordered support is legally considered a gift. It doesn't matter if you noted on the checks that it was for child support; outside of a court-order it's a gift. You could have Perry Mason and Vincent Bugliosi on your legal team and they still wouldn't be able to change that (sad but true) factoid. Is this fair? In my opinion, absolutely not. But it is what it is.

Also, child support is meant to reimburse the CP for monies they've already spent on raising your child; her bk has absolutely nothing to do with how much you pay. It's entirely possible that she doesn't have to count child support in her bk filing (I've seen this done twice, both in Ch 7 cases).

You could petition the courts for a modification of CS, but it could go either way. HER finances will have little, if any, bearing.

ETA: her declaring BK does not necessarily indicate an increase in income at all. It's a decrease in expenses, yes, but not an increase in income - this is generally the way family courts view the situation.

Point taken. Thanks.

[oneklub]

This is oh so simple. It is apparent she did not want you to know about the BK because if you did, you would go for a reduction of child support. Child support is determined by your State Family Court. Since she now has an increase in her income, you should have a reduction in child support. If the situation was turned around and you had the increase in funds available and decrease in expenses, you can bet she would go for an increase.

Now, what you have to personally figure out why she kept all this from you as the father of her child and also supporting the child. There is more to this than meets the eye. We can't make personal decisions for you as to what to do...this is something you are going to have to figure out on your own after getting several areas of looking at your situation.

Easiest way out of this? Marry her! :-)

ROFLOL..."Marry her." I really had to chuckle. We do so much better as just friends. Really. Did I mention the remaining $100K of non-dischargeable debt? Financial problems are the biggest source of divorce...wouldn't be a good start...even with a pre-nup...

I like what you say. And I'm considering many options (including the varied ones on this board). Some say "forget it" and some say confront her but "bide my time."

Any statute of limitations I need to keep in mind for this matter?

Thanks for the chuckle and the sage advice.