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how to defend against things you don't own

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    #16
    Awe that is really a shame... I'm sorry you have to go through all that. That has peeked my curiosity though. Do keep us posted. ;)

    At least you don't have my mother... she couldn't understand why I couldn't transfer her debts to my name to include them in my bankruptcy... lol.
    BK Ch 7 Discharged 09/2009 | Anything I say can and should be used as friendly advice and sharing of experiences with an unbiased viewpoint.
    Scores: EQ 745 EX 704 TU 710 as of 08/15/2012

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by lrprn View Post
      Tin, sometimes families self-destruct. Members take sides and enemy factions develop within the family. Then when one member does something like filing bankruptcy, the enemy camp uses it as an excuse to go after him or her as punishment, to get revenge, to create trouble where there is none, etc.....it's a sad waste of energy and time. Unfortunately, it does happen. Be glad you aren't caught up in this kind of dysfunctional family.
      So how does the family screw up two 341's for the person filing, and nothing is done about their false allegations?
      If you make it to a 341 I think it's a bit too late to turn back and unhide assets don't you? The trustee doesn't go through with the case, find hidden assets and tell the op to try better next time and we'll set up another 341 for you.
      My arguement is totally pointless. OP was asked what happened at the last two--no response.
      Hypothetical situations? my comments on that would be too rude for this huggy kissy forum.
      If it's the big crime that it is and this person is being accused of it why does everything end at the 341?

      I learned from this forum. I came on here and asked straight up questions and it was FRAUD!!!and HIDING ASSETS!!!!!!!! I guess I should have made up a better story.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by tinfoilhat View Post
        So how does the family screw up two 341's for the person filing, and nothing is done about their false allegations?
        Because each time the family appears with new allegations, the trustee has to continue the 341. I'm sure there is an investigation going on, but since the allegations involve land held overseas among other assets, unfortunately for the filer it's not going to be a quick investigation

        If you make it to a 341 I think it's a bit too late to turn back and unhide assets don't you?
        Frankly it happens more frequently than you could imagine. Do a google search for bankruptcy fraud - hiding assets on purpose and filing hoping to get away with it is way up there on the top 10bk fraud list.

        OP was asked what happened at the last two--no response.
        This is a voluntary forum, tin. No one has to share what they don't want to.....even you.

        Hypothetical situations? my comments on that would be too rude for this huggy kissy forum.
        You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. Personally I don't know what I and hundreds of other desperate people would have done without this "huggy kissy forum"
        I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice nor a statement of the law - only a lawyer can provide those.

        06/01/06 - Filed Ch 13
        06/28/06 - 341 Meeting
        07/18/06 - Confirmation Hearing - not confirmed, 3 objections
        10/05/06 - Hearing to resolve 2 trustee objections
        01/24/07 - Judge dismisses mortgage company objection
        09/27/07 - Confirmed at last!
        06/10/11 - Trustee confirms all payments made
        08/10/11 - DISCHARGED !

        10/02/11 - CASE CLOSED
        Countdown: 60 months paid, 0 months to go

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          #19
          Who doesn't like hugs and kisses???? If you don't, then you're probably not doing it right!
          BK Ch 7 Discharged 09/2009 | Anything I say can and should be used as friendly advice and sharing of experiences with an unbiased viewpoint.
          Scores: EQ 745 EX 704 TU 710 as of 08/15/2012

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by lrprn View Post

            Frankly it happens more frequently than you could imagine. Do a google search for bankruptcy fraud - hiding assets on purpose and filing hoping to get away with it is way up there on the top 10bk fraud list.

            D
            So you're saying that someone who's hiding assets, files bk, gets to a 341 they get busted for hiding assets which is fraud, so the trustee just reschedules another 341 and hopes they did a better job of hiding assets this time around?

            I don't think it works like that. I think someone hides assets, files bk, goes to a 341, assets are found, and they're done...the outcome is fraud.

            Are you actually telling me you can go through the courts hiding assets and get a third shot at it?

            There is a 100% lack of communication here. You know what I don't even care. Don't answer me please.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Amy26 View Post
              Who doesn't like hugs and kisses???? If you don't, then you're probably not doing it right!
              Thanks, I needed that

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by tinfoilhat View Post
                So you're saying that someone who's hiding assets, files bk, gets to a 341 they get busted for hiding assets which is fraud, so the trustee just reschedules another 341 and hopes they did a better job of hiding assets this time around?

                I don't think it works like that. I think someone hides assets, files bk, goes to a 341, assets are found, and they're done...the outcome is fraud.

                Are you actually telling me you can go through the courts hiding assets and get a third shot at it?

                There is a 100% lack of communication here. You know what I don't even care. Don't answer me please.
                I think there is a misunderstanding here. I'm guessing the meetings are being continued in order for the trustee to investigate the claims of fraud, not to give the OP a chance to hide assets. None of us really know though, because the OP hasn't explained.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Now, if I was a detective, and I am not. I would guess that perhaps a family member was listed as a creditor in the OP's petition and are pissed and want to throw a screw into the mix.

                  They probably think the OP has has unlisted assets because they "think" they know something and now that they have raised the issue, the Trustee has asked the debtor for proof, thus the continuation. or perhaps the TT is just investigating things further. 341's are continued all the time because debtors can't get proper documentation or forget something.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Yeah and I would hope for the OP's sake ,when all is said and done, If the family members lied in Court, the Trustee takes the time to let a Judge know.

                    I would think that a 341 hearing would be a judicial hearing and lying in Court would be perjury.

                    Luci

                    Comment


                      #25
                      hmmm. i wonder if the family members were under oath when they said whatever it was that they said. if they were not, then it's not per se perjury but rather abuse of process. that's still serious but probably not considered criminal.
                      filed ch7 May 09
                      341 june 09
                      discharged, closed Aug 09

                      Comment


                        #26
                        okay okay

                        I never meant to cause such a comotion. The case is complicated with multiple businesses, real estate, etc. There are no allegations of fraud from the trustee. There are multiple lawsuits involving family members. Sounds like a soap opera, I know. It would make a good book, if I could stand to relive the details in the story. ding dong has pretty good idea of what is going on too. My only point was how does the trustee determine whether you have an asset when it's he said, she said. Like I said I'm not worried about the trustee examining us. It however is very difficult to prove something existed, that never existed.

                        Everybody take a breath and post some other question so we can all move on. Thanks for all the kind words too. I need all the kisses and hugs, I can get between all the tears.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by howtoplan View Post
                          I never meant to cause such a comotion. The case is complicated with multiple businesses, real estate, etc. There are no allegations of fraud from the trustee. There are multiple lawsuits involving family members. Sounds like a soap opera, I know. It would make a good book, if I could stand to relive the details in the story. ding dong has pretty good idea of what is going on too. My only point was how does the trustee determine whether you have an asset when it's he said, she said. Like I said I'm not worried about the trustee examining us. It however is very difficult to prove something existed, that never existed.

                          Everybody take a breath and post some other question so we can all move on. Thanks for all the kind words too. I need all the kisses and hugs, I can get between all the tears.

                          O howtoplan this thread is nothing compared to some others. You will find we members like to 'dissect' a thread. No big deal.

                          Will be praying your mess will soon come to a halt and you will Finally get your discharged.

                          Luci

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by howtoplan View Post
                            my astranged relatives are claiming i own all sorts of things to the trustee, we simply dont own. Now what?
                            If there is not a paper trail, then I don't know how they would prove it. No hidden bank accounts, recorded/deeded real estate or property transactions, insurance on expensive jewelry or antiques?

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by pookieny View Post
                              If there is not a paper trail, then I don't know how they would prove it. No hidden bank accounts, recorded/deeded real estate or property transactions, insurance on expensive jewelry or antiques?
                              This is true. I have a similar situation with an enemy who has pestered I/we for nine years. Last day of objections, he files an AP with the Federal court on a then five year old lawsuit yet to bring to trial in a Civil suit in our County. The trial would have taken days and we were allotted four hours in a bk Court for a Civil suit with file cabinets full of evidence and pleadings. The suit lay dormant for 17 months previously, but the Court failed to close it for non prosecution. My enemy simply wished to Efff Up my bk. We actually went to visit his own new lawyer (who had his client figured out). We explained that we would fight the suit as long as we could but the 87,000 reparations they asked for would never be collectible. This Adversary's lawyer actually agreed and said in confidence that this Judge does not want to try a case about what he knows nothing of and we would commit to put it back to the Civil Courts as a non dischargeable debt depending on what the Civil Trial pulls up. This was victory for us and in six more months it can be dismissed for non action. Well Karma struck my enemy down and on April 1 "All fools day" he had a massive heart attack and lost all use of kidneys and a 10 hour quad bypass.

                              This Atheistic AH got his reward here on Earth as well as the Almighty is waiting for him on the other side.

                              Today, we are no more in fear of him and we cannot get anymore bankrupt than we are now, but WE ARE HAPPY and HEALTHY. That is all you can ask for. 'Hub

                              P.S. This OP has a similar problem as I see it. Spite and hate. Also a contributor has similar problems and sometimes bitterness and frustration shows through due to constant pain and stress. Time seems to heal most things.
                              If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                while the adversary lawyer sounded nice to you, i think he was going to screw you: to have you agree to make a debt nondischargeable? why would you agree to something like that? for sure your enemy would have done something within those 6 months so it won't get dismissed.

                                thankfully, as it turned out, it didn't matter.
                                filed ch7 May 09
                                341 june 09
                                discharged, closed Aug 09

                                Comment

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