Shoot creditors calling again!

[momof3b1g]

We forgot a creditor on our BK. It is from 2006. Its only for $77, i'd just pay it but we are broke. We have already been discharged and i'm sure probably closed. But what are the rules about adding creditors not listed?

Also the collection agency was listed. But for another account. Does that make a difference?

[MSbklawyer]

We forgot a creditor on our BK. It is from 2006. Its only for $77, i'd just pay it but we are broke. We have already been discharged and i'm sure probably closed. But what are the rules about adding creditors not listed?

Also the collection agency was listed. But for another account. Does that make a difference?

Assuming you were a no asset 7, you could probably reopen it and pay it. But it would cost more than the $77 to do that.

[jadams]

Next time they call tell them it was included in your bankruptcy, case number, discharge date, etc.

Or, send them a letter.

More likely than not you'll never hear from them again and it will go away.

[momof3b1g]

Next time they call tell them it was included in your bankruptcy, case number, discharge date, etc.

Or, send them a letter.

More likely than not you'll never hear from them again and it will go away.

We did tell them we filed BK. But they know this account was not listed on it. But the other account of ours they have is. I'm sure that is why they are calling.

[lovebirds]

We did tell them we filed BK. But they know this account was not listed on it. But the other account of ours they have is. I'm sure that is why they are calling.

I wouldn't worry about it. You will pay it when you aren't broke. It isn't like they are going to garnish your wages or bank account for $77.

[justbroke]

Send them a copy of your discharge order. That should be sufficient. I don't think you want to re-open your case, $260, to pay a $77 debt. When your write to them, make sure they know that all debts that were dischargeable prior to the day you filed, are discharged. Let them know that if they bother you one more time, you will, in fact, re-open your case, and ask the Court to enter an Order to Show Cause and for Sanctions for violation of the Discharge Injunction. And, that they will be liable for all your legal fees and costs and be subject to damages (both actual and punitive).

[aces67]

Send them a copy of your discharge order. That should be sufficient. I don't think you want to re-open your case, $260, to pay a $77 debt. When your write to them, make sure they know that all debts that were dischargeable prior to the day you filed, are discharged. Let them know that if they bother you one more time, you will, in fact, re-open your case, and ask the Court to enter an Order to Show Cause and for Sanctions for violation of the Discharge Injunction. And, that they will be liable for all your legal fees and costs and be subject to damages (both actual and punitive).

I agree with this. My discharge paper actually clearly states that. I just sent my discharge and a letter out to a creditor today.

[momof3b1g]

I agree with this. My discharge paper actually clearly states that. I just sent my discharge and a letter out to a creditor today.

So the creditor/account doesn't have to be listed on the bk papers?

[justbroke]

So the creditor/account doesn't have to be listed on the bk papers?

It depends on your specific District. Having wrote that, the majority of Districts has opined that re-opening a no-asset case to add a pre-petition creditor to the matrix is useless and that the bankruptcy code clearly states that "a discharge under [Chapter 7]... discharges the debtor from all debts that arose before the date of the order for relief". The Majority continues to opine that "all debts" means "all debts", otherwise Congress should have added the words "scheduled" to that so that it read "all scheduled debts". But they didn't.

Hopefully, you're in a District which recognizes this clearly unambiguous portion of the Bankruptcy Code in 11 USC 727.

[AngelinaCatHub]

You can bet on "Justbroke"s opinion. However, I had the same thing. I simply sent a copy of my discharge paper and mine was for near 600. Have not heard from them. It costs more for them to take you to small claims than 77 bucks. Don't fret and PLEASE don't kick a sleeping dog by opening a closed case. 'Hub

BTW, don't shoot any creditors. It is illegal.

[momof3b1g]

I have no plans on opening it back up. Especially for such a small amount. Hopefully they will not bother us again. I will contact our lawyer if they do.

[MSbklawyer]

It depends on your specific District. Having wrote that, the majority of Districts has opined that re-opening a no-asset case to add a pre-petition creditor to the matrix is useless and that the bankruptcy code clearly states that "a discharge under [Chapter 7]... discharges the debtor from all debts that arose before the date of the order for relief". The Majority continues to opine that "all debts" means "all debts", otherwise Congress should have added the words "scheduled" to that so that it read "all scheduled debts". But they didn't.

Hopefully, you're in a District which recognizes this clearly unambiguous portion of the Bankruptcy Code in 11 USC 727.

A discharge . . . does not discharge an individual debtor from any debt . . . neither listed nor nor scheduled under 521(1) of this title . . .The debtor shall file --

A list of creditors.

So which section wins? That's where the lawyers come in.

[music12]

it looks like you said this creditor WAS listed, but for another debt and not this one? it doesn't matter: they have notice of your petition, it doesn't matter what account numbers you put on there. it's all discharged.

[justbroke]

Actually, that's exactly what the majority Courts have said doesn't apply. Through statutory construction they reach the conclusion that since a "no-asset" case has no "bar date", then there is no period that "timely filing of a proof of claim, unless such creditor had notice or actual knowledge of the case in time for such timely filing" or "imely filing of a proof of claim and timely request for a determination of dischargeability of such debt under one of such paragraphs, unless such creditor had notice or actual knowledge of the case in time for such timely filing and request" (11 USC 523(a)(3)(A) and (B)).

Specifically these Courts have stated since there is no claims bar date in a no-asset case, 523(a)(3) doesn't apply.

See the appellate case Madaj, 149 F.3d at 469 (6th Circuit 1998, Eastern District of Michigan at Detroit Case No. 96-1888), which specifically looked at the interplay in 11 USC 727 and 11 USC 523(a)(3). See In re Wells, 246 B.R. 268 (Bankr. E.D. Ky. 2000 Case No. 95-20905).

[JRScott]

Considering the collection agency was listed, regardless of whether this specific account was listed when they are handling multiple accounts the debt is discharged. Take and make a copy of your discharge letter and mail it to them.

Then save their violation letters and take them to your lawyer if they continue.