Where do I list older real estate Taxes ??

[bellee]

Im facing a tax sale for late 2006 /2007 taxes.
(im filing to put automatic stay and stop the sale )
they're now over 2 years old
I read the local rules for my area and they say re taxes older than 2 years can be discharged (yes I read al 107 pages of local rules)
Do I list it on priority unclaimed creditors form ?

[justbroke]

Well, some taxes can be discharged. If your underlying State non-bankruptcy laws attaches property taxes as automatic liens against your property... then you can't discharge the tax. The tax attaches to the property as a lien in order to guarantee payment. Local rules are not the law and do not contain anything regarding State non-bankruptcy law.

What telling me even more that these are non-dischargeable property taxes, is the fact that you're trying to avoid a tax sale. In order for there to be a tax sale, the property must already have a lien attached to give them sufficient priority to remedy your default by foreclosing.

Now, regular property taxes are not entitled to priority anyhow. You would never put anything as a priority unsecured debt because all priority unsecured debt must be paid. Federal income taxes, from the IRS, are entitled to priority (in almost all instances) unless they are more than 3 years old since they were due without penalty, you filed at least 2 years ago, and they haven't been assessed within 240 days of filing.

This is why I recommended you get the NoLo book at least so that you would place things in the proper place.

Can you go back to the Pro Se forum area and post exactly what you're trying to do and what you want out of this filing? I ask because this is what's going to happen. You're going to file thinking you can discharge property taxes that are not only past due, a tax certificate issued, and a lien places on your property... you're going to find out that the people holding the tax certificate only need file a Motion for Relief from the Automatic Stay (MFRS). Once this MFRS is filed, they will quite easily have it granted. They will then continue the foreclosure. Now, this will delay them a little (maybe 30-60 days... tops)... but it will not stop them.

[whipster1]

Property taxes don't go away, they "attach" to the land. Have you called the entity to work out a deal? Even if they sell it through a tax sale you have plenty of time to redeem the property in most states. In TX (where whipster1 lives) I think it is 2 years. This is not like a foreclosure where you have to vacate the property immediately.

[frogger]

I'm experiencing that property tax problem now. I've got quite a few properties that are going to have the taxes sold on the courthouse steps next month. Note, the tax debt is going to be sold. From that point, I have 12 months to buy the debt back by purchasing them back from whomever buys them. I would have to pay the original tax debt + an extra 20%.

Now.... I have no intention of paying them, or buying them back. I'll let the bank foreclose in the next few months, and then.... the bank will buy the tax debt in order to have clear title on the property.

Till then? Who cares. It's all part of the plan. Life goes on and it's business as usual.

[bellee]

Property taxes don't go away, they "attach" to the land. Have you called the entity to work out a deal? Even if they sell it through a tax sale you have plenty of time to redeem the property in most states. In TX (where whipster1 lives) I think it is 2 years. This is not like a foreclosure where you have to vacate the property immediately.

In PA , no right of redemption in my county
I went to the the office myself.
no car, so took hour long bus ride.
They were very disinterested.
I offered them 1150 of the 5100 owing and then installments.
I explained that my mortgage company screwed up the taxes in escrow.
they DONT care.
all they would tell me is to give them the money OR proof I filed bankruptcy OR a court order and they'd stop it.
Very hard to get court order.
My exbf was going to help me out with them (I was supposed to move away 8 months ago for a new job and sell my house and he begged me to stay). Unfortunately I found him cheating, so no go on getting a loan from Lucifer.


If I had known I HAD to pay these myself I wouldve claimed the homestead exemption
I feel dumb I didnt understand it until recently.

[justbroke]

If I had known I HAD to pay these myself I wouldve claimed the homestead exemption

A homestead exemption, doesn't protect you from property taxes.

What you should be doing, is contacting the Mortgage company and tell them that they are about to lose the home over property taxes. A lender almost always will pay the property taxes than to lose lots more money on the tax sale.

[bellee]

A homestead exemption, doesn't protect you from property taxes.

What you should be doing, is contacting the Mortgage company and tell them that they are about to lose the home over property taxes. A lender almost always will pay the property taxes than to lose lots more money on the tax sale.

1. It would have lowered them a staggering amount (the casinos/gambling in my state contribute to the homestead exemption via the state, talking $$$ saved)
2. My lawyer said not to contact the mortgage company because they would pay for the taxes and then proceed with foreclosure more easily.
3.The latest thing is I'm filing 7 and will probably convert to 13 mid way thru.

[justbroke]

1. It would have lowered them a staggering amount (the casinos/gambling in my state contribute to the homestead exemption via the state, talking $$$ saved)

Would have lowered your taxes... I see. Thought you were thinking that you would "avoid" taxation altogether or otherwise be immune from tax sales.

2. My lawyer said not to contact the mortgage company because they would pay for the taxes and then proceed with foreclosure more easily.

Generally speaking, if you are up to date on your mortgage payments... what the lender does is pays the taxes, then sets up an escrow account. The problem will be that the escrow account will be severely negative in balance. To catchup the balance AND to have enough for the next tax payment, the escrow payment will be double or triple what it would normally be. So, I have no clue what your lawyer is talking about. I have never heard of a lender foreclosing because they had to setup an escrow account for taxes, or for force placed insurance. There must be something else going on. Are you late on your payment to the lender?

3.The latest thing is I'm filing 7 and will probably convert to 13 mid way thru.

Is that a strategy that your lawyer suggested??? File a Chapter 7 just to stop the tax sale, but convert to a Chapter 13 after? Why not just file a Chapter 13???

[hereforinfo]

If I had known I HAD to pay these myself I wouldve claimed the homestead exemption
I feel dumb I didnt understand it until recently.

You have to pay property taxes regardless of whether you escrow with your mortgage company or not. You're either saving the money yourself and writing a check to the tax collector, or else you pay extra to the lender each month and they pay the total when due. I'm confused. Who did you think was going to pay your taxes?

Are you current on the mortgage? If so, the lender will not foreclose. They will just pay the taxes. Then they will start an escrow account to collect future taxes. Your mortgage payment will go up quite a lot because they will be collecting next year's taxes as well as the previous year's taxes - the total split over the next 12 months.

But then you said the bank messed up your escrow. How so?

[justbroke]

But then you said the bank messed up your escrow. How so?

Not answering for belle, but some buyers believe that the lender is escrowing the taxes. However, a quick glance at the monthly statement would show no escrow balance and/or an escrow balance that never increases or decreases.

If a person assumed it was escrowed, and didn't look at their bills, then they may mistakenly believe that the Bank is paying them. However, this didn't occur in this instance and belle's ex-boyfriend was apparently going to pay them. In any event, this never occurred, so belle is now in trouble.

I know that I thought my taxes -- on my first built home -- were escrowed, but quickly realized they weren't, when my total mortgage payment was "low" and glancing at the monthly statement showed $0.00 in the escrow account and $0.00 of payment to the escrow account.

[bellee]

Not answering for belle, but some buyers believe that the lender is escrowing the taxes. However, a quick glance at the monthly statement would show no escrow balance and/or an escrow balance that never increases or decreases.

If a person assumed it was escrowed, and didn't look at their bills, then they may mistakenly believe that the Bank is paying them. However, this didn't occur in this instance and belle's ex-boyfriend was apparently going to pay them. In any event, this never occurred, so belle is now in trouble.

I know that I thought my taxes -- on my first built home -- were escrowed, but quickly realized they weren't, when my total mortgage payment was "low" and glancing at the monthly statement showed $0.00 in the escrow account and $0.00 of payment to the escrow account.

im trying to record my phone call with wachovia right now. im getting 3 different opinions on what's happening

[bellee]

Is that a strategy that your lawyer suggested??? File a Chapter 7 just to stop the tax sale, but convert to a Chapter 13 after? Why not just file a Chapter 13???

unemployed but looks like i have a new job in 4 weeks
hence filing 7 right now pro se and then she will help convert to 13

[bellee]

wow theyre being aholes

[bellee]

i havent been able to discuss my mortgage because they have me listed as a man
i sent in my license repeatedly over last year and a half

finally they found it 3 days ago

now im on phone with escrow dept and the guy is being a jerk and saying the dl photo is grainy.

wtf ?

im furious

[bellee]

still on hold
now im asking for the media relations number