10k over the median

[PacificBlue]

Moved to a new question

[PacificBlue]

Much brighter Klandsb thanks. The fact you have to shop so much for the RIGHT lawyer, tells me there are too many lawyers to start with. Um, maybe shouldn't put it that way, or so blunt. However a lawyer that is willing to go to bat for you vs a lawyer that is blah, blah, lets get this over with, your screwed, I got lots of fish on the line here... The difference is incomparable.

[klandsb]

Good your you.... I think the RIGHT lawyer makes all the difference in the world. Sometimes u have to go to as many as it takes. Remember we are talking about your future which looks a little brighter today eh ...

[PacificBlue]

Why would you lose your SUV
I get the sense you are talking to the wrong lawyers or "people" that don't know anything about chapter 13's.
Yes, the trailor would go....BUT YOU ARE IN DEBT, put it in perspective.

We lose the SUV because the payment is over the allotted amount in payments per month. You are 110% correct about we have been talking to the wrong lawyers". I can not stress that enough! There needs to be a HUGE flag letting people know the RIGHT lawyer makes ALL the difference!

After talking to 8 lawyers on the phone, and one in person last night we got a call back from the RIGHT Lawyer. We see him on Tuesday.

We take responsibility for our financial problems, but not all of it. We had a 7 year plan where we would be debt free, and could still retire at age 60 or so. The dumb luck of the cancer, well.. that's just the crappy luck of things. We have to share our financial problems with three factors.

1. Our 7 year plan was totaled out when we got letters from our credit card companies letting us know they lowered our limits and increased the interest rates. (from 2.9% to 29%). We had NEVER even so much as been late on a payment in 10 years, and was no where near our limits. We also had not used the cards in several months.

2. Job hours cut back AND mandatory 2 days off a month. (loss of income).

3. Cost of our health care went up, and Projected costs. (you know what the "C" word does when shopping for insurance?)

We were not outliving our means, not by a long shot. Since we believe we found the "RIGHT" lawyer, (we will know when we meet him next week, but the hour he spent with us on the phone last night He.... well lets just say he's the RIGHT lawyer) We are moving forward for the Ch 13. So we will start posting/sharing in that thread.

Thank you all.

[klandsb]

Listen to HHM please. In a Chapter 13 they give you a feasible plan. Yea, you may not go to luxury hotels for vacation every year but they do take your income vs your legitimate expenses and work out a repayment plan. At least then if something terrible would happan (god forbid) your wife will not be left with a total disaster on top of everything else and could probally then convert to a Chapter 7... Or even you could convert if your medical expenses change drastically

[HHM]

Why would you lose your SUV

I get the sense you are talking to the wrong lawyers or "people" that don't know anything about chapter 13's.

Yes, the trailor would go....BUT YOU ARE IN DEBT, put it in perspective.

[PacificBlue]

What I'm hearing and reading about 13 in Oregon is you are stripped down to just living. We lose our trailer, (it is considered a "toy'. even though we are still making payments on it) lose our SUV, even though we are paying on that. Everything goes towards paying off your "non secured" debts.

It's the credit card companies that put us in the situation. They lowered our limit (we were not and have not even been charging anything for like 6 months) and raised our interest rate. We were doing okay but before that, but now it would take 20 years to pay them back at the new higher rate.

You maybe right, it could be a mistake, but right now I feel it's what's best for us. Tomorrow if cancer puts me in a even less situation then I will have to rethink it. I was told in Sept, I would have anywhere from 6 months to 10 years. I'm not living the last years of my life out in any worst situation that what I'm in now.

We may not have enough money left over right now to do much, but as it is we go to the coast in our trailer for a week end and enjoy what life there is left.

[HHM]

Yeah, that's what we are finding out real quick here. Laws in Oregon are very rough, or most Oregon lawyers don't want to spend any time going over the situation. We won't file if it has to be a 13. We will try work with our non secured Card companies on our own. Pay one, one month, and so on. Then if/when my health takes a dive and our med bills are through the roof, time loss of work and so on we will go it another go. Thanks all.

That is probably a mistake, I think you are harboring some myths about chapter 13. If you could get out of debt in 5 years or less on your own, then there is no reason you would be considering BK. Chapter 13 is about putting you back in control of your financial life and getting out of debt.

[PacificBlue]

Yeah, that's what we are finding out real quick here. Laws in Oregon are very rough, or most Oregon lawyers don't want to spend any time going over the situation. We won't file if it has to be a 13. We will try work with our non secured Card companies on our own. Pay one, one month, and so on. Then if/when my health takes a dive and our med bills are through the roof, time loss of work and so on we will go it another go. Thanks all.

[HHM]

First, phone consults are the worst. Those that offer free phone consults as a rule, tend to be the bottom of the barrel as far as BK lawyers go. It is one thing if you live in a rural area and an otherwise good attorney in the nearest major city offers a phone consult to accomodate you, but if you are calling those lawyers that offer phone consults, the advice is usually very poor.

Having said that, if you are over median, any good lawyer will at least set the expectation that you would be a chapter 13, but as others have said, it comes down to expenses. Although it is "possible" to file a chapter 7 and be over median, those case are still very much the exception to the rule. Generally, if you are over median, you will be a chapter 13. When you start getting $10K+ over median, it gets harder and harder to do chapter 7 unless you have higher (reasonable) out of the ordinary expenses.

[justbroke]

Two more lawyers (here in Oregon) on the phone said, "Your over the limit, you have to go ch 13" Grrrr... We have a camp trailer we would like to keep making payments on and keep, but ch 13 (in the lawyers words) we would be forced to sell. (even though we owe more on it then it's worth)... Still calling more lawyers..

You're not forced to sell it or otherwise dispose of it in a Chapter 13. However, keeping it, may mean that your unsecured creditors would need to receive at least the market value of that trailer, over the course of the Plan. This is known as the "liquidation" test. Chapter 13 allows you to keep everything want to keep and that you can afford... but not to the detriment of the unsecured creditors.

[PacificBlue]

Two more lawyers (here in Oregon) on the phone said, "Your over the limit, you have to go ch 13" Grrrr... We have a camp trailer we would like to keep making payments on and keep, but ch 13 (in the lawyers words) we would be forced to sell. (even though we owe more on it then it's worth)... Still calling more lawyers..

[backtoschool]

The longer you can hold out to file, the better, as you want to include as many of your medical expenses as possible. You also want to have your lower income reflected on the means test.

I think with your medical expenses, you should try for a chapter 7, but you should try to include as many of your medical expenses as possible.

I would keep talking to lawyers until you find one that is actually looking at your case on its individual merits and not just crunching numbers.

[LimpDisc]

I would wait for other posters to chime in on your situation. I know there are others on this forum that have dealt with medical issues and bankruptcy. If you're going to have tons of medical bills in the near future you will want to include as much as you can in BK.

[PacificBlue]

Thanks, we are making more appointments this morning and calling all "free advice" over the phone ones. Though our situation is fair at best right now, the medical is (pardon the pun) going to "kill" us very soon. The shots I'm on are $2,800 per shot (ever three months) and the pills are $736.00 per month. Right now our insurance is paying about 85% of it, but we are forced to get new insurance by Jan 1st. We have no idea how much out of pocket will be.

If this cancer does "get me" my wife is left in total ruins, and even before that the quality of our life is stressed (not only from the cancer) but by not being able to pay our bills. The first lawyer told us yesterday "they don't care about what it looks like ahead, just what's your past income and situation".