UST wants 2 yrs of records... why?

[topekajack]

Can someone help me understand why a UST would want 2 years of bank records, cc records and such? I'm over the median and have over $100k in unsecured debt. I'm assuming that a UST will get involved once I file. What difference does it make when looking at 2 years of records versus 60 days? Are they going to say "uh, you purchased a nice TV 15 months ago.... case dismissed!" .... what are they looking for? Thanks and Merry Christmas to all!

[ToughSpot]

My guess is they are looking for insider transactions.

[JRScott]

2 Years request is routine in cases where the UST is involved and yes considering you are over median with over 100k in debt to discharge they will be involved.

[Flamingo]

You have high unsecured debt you are trying to discharge. Two years of statements can show a lot and they want to see your activity during that time and as previously stated, it's usually routine. They are just doing their job.

[StartingOver08]

As pointed out, they are looking for certain types of transactions like insider payments and pre-petition transfers or maybe funds being stashed in another account that you did not disclose, that type of thing. They are not interested in the big screen you bought 18 mths ago.

If you are over median and have high debt you are subject to further review, but it is SOP and nothing to worry about. Remember the Trustee is looking out for their own interest and the interest of the creditors.

I found a 16 page paper that lists the various types of things that Trustee's are looking for when they review a BK petition and the documentation. It lists things for both a consumer BK and a business BK. It is pretty interesting! http://www.crfonline.org/orc/pdf/ref11.pdf

[HHM]

That article is really geared more toward businesses and corporations, but interesting nonetheless.

[StartingOver08]

OK! So I did a little more research and found a 60 page book on the justice.gov site for "Identifying Fraud, Abuse, and Error in Personal Bankruptcy Filings". This was just written as of 2007 so the info is pretty recent.

http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/public_affairs/reports_studies/docs/Fraud_and_Abuse_Study_Rand.pdf

[topekajack]

That's a good read... thanks!

[dakota112]

How would one provide thr TT with CC statements when you don't have them. My accounts i am pretty sure have all been charged off to collection agencies and I did not keep the statements going back more than one year and I doubt the CC companies will give them to me if I called them.

[albacore44]

How would one provide thr TT with CC statements when you don't have them. My accounts i am pretty sure have all been charged off to collection agencies and I did not keep the statements going back more than one year and I doubt the CC companies will give them to me if I called them.

well you would have to go back to the banks and ask for copies. a couple of members were scrutinized and required to provide them. i have been collecting mine just in case, and i have over 2 years worth tabbed in binders. This should be part of your BK planning process, just in case they are asked for.

[Meatstick]

I think what dakota112 is asking is what happens if you do NOT have them. The bank statements would probably not be hard to produce but most people myself included don't keep cc statements going back that far and you usually cannot download that far back online either. I am sure dakota112 isn't the only one who has faced this situation and I am sure the UST has a remedy.


Meatstick

[pcn]

How would one provide thr TT with CC statements when you don't have them. My accounts i am pretty sure have all been charged off to collection agencies and I did not keep the statements going back more than one year and I doubt the CC companies will give them to me if I called them.

I second the question. It would almost seem that one was planning to file bankruptcy if all these records were being kept from years ago. Someone NOT planning to file would be "bopping right along" throwing out these type documents as most people do. Right up to the time they realize things aren't going as planned, and know they need to file. At that point they have maybe a few months of records, and the cc's have cut off their on-line access. To me, the second situation seems more plausible than someone who has kept all these records for years. The first one would almost raise more concerns with me.

[StartingOver08]

Well, some of us are used to keeping our records a min of 7 yrs anyway. Also, with the electronic statements you just download them to your hard drive, they take up no room. Most of the time you can go back 7 yrs for electronic cc statements and more than two yrs for bank statements.

Looking at the posts where there are BK issues, there seem to be more issues with BK's when there is no documentation available to back up your figures.

[albacore44]

If the UST asks for them, you better be prepared to present them to him. he could use this as a basis to dismiss your case. yeah, a lot of people put them in the Shredder, but filing BK is serious business. I prefer to anticipate that the UST might ask for anything, to me better to be safe than sorry, anticpate the worst, hope for the best. last year a poster here Jessegirl went through Hell trying to get all her statements when the UST asked for them

[JRScott]

Ultimately you can send a request to the credit card company itself, I'd send a certified return receipt requested letter asking for such. If they don't provide take that to the trustee as evidence you tried to obtain the information required.