Property tax

[Pasofino]

I owe back taxes on properties that are in foreclosure.
Filing Ch 7
Do I list these taxes? where?

Thanks

[justbroke]

You should list them on either Schedule E (if they are secured by your property) or Schedule F (if they are unsecured).

Do you have the NoLo guidebook or are you filing Pro Se without any type of book to help you? If you are filing Pro Se, please post to the Pro Se section of the forum as there are many people who have gone this way and can help you better if we know what you're doing.

[Pasofino]

You should list them on either Schedule E (if they are secured by your property) or Schedule F (if they are unsecured).

Do you have the NoLo guidebook or are you filing Pro Se without any type of book to help you? If you are filing Pro Se, please post to the Pro Se section of the forum as there are many people who have gone this way and can help you better if we know what you're doing.

I pay them separately..meaning they are paid directly to the county and not included in my mtg. payment.

thanks

[justbroke]

I pay them separately..meaning they are paid directly to the county and not included in my mtg. payment.

It doesn't matter who you pay it through (direct or via mortgage company). It matters if your State, by Statute, makes property taxes "secured" automatically via a statutory lien... like in my State of Florida. In most States, property taxes are statutory liens, but in others, they are not. This is what will make a difference as to whether it goes on Schedule D or Schedule F.

[yomann]

You should list them on either Schedule E (if they are secured by your property) or Schedule F (if they are unsecured).......

I owe property taxes to the county for the contents & leasehold improvements (not real property) for a business that I closed last July.
We are filing BK7 this week and my attorney says they may or may not be discharged. Seeking other opinions .....

[justbroke]

It depends. Tangible property taxes, oh I hate those so much. Since we're talking tangible taxes, these are generally "automatic" statutory liens against the entity to whom they are charged. If you are a sole prop or a closely held corporation (LLC, S Corp, Limited Partnership?), this could mean that the tax is not dischargeable since it liens on your real property.

There have been cases in Florida where the tax collector was spanked and sanctioned for collecting on those taxes in Bankruptcy. However, in the specific case I remember, the tax collector went after money in the debtor's account, post discharge, and not after the actual property that they had a statutory lien on!

Yes, your lawyer really needs to figure out the extend and validity of any statutory lien and what property it affects or attaches to. If this is real old tax debt, it's even possible that it could be discharged, but I'm not tax specialist.

[yomann]

It depends. Tangible property taxes, oh I hate those so much. Since we're talking tangible taxes, these are generally "automatic" statutory liens against the entity to whom they are charged. If you are a sole prop or a closely held corporation (LLC, S Corp, Limited Partnership?), this could mean that the tax is not dischargeable since it liens on your real property...........

Thanks for your reply.
I owe 5 years of these taxes.
The County filed a lien against the property where the business operated, but since I did not own the property (just the contents), they reversed that lien.
So far, no lien on my residental property.
I am hoping these get discharged in BK7. Care to provide odds on this ?

[justbroke]

I am hoping these get discharged in BK7. Care to provide odds on this ?

Excellent that there are no liens, because you are right, the municipality usually liens the business assets (contents, furnishings, fixtures, inventory). I say the chances are slim. Perhaps the older taxes can be discharged by filing a complaint to determine dischargeablity, but most are excepted from discharged under 11 USC 523.