Expenses for pets

[epiphany]

As a household with two (very darling and cute) kitty cats and two dogs (giant with imposing tounges), YES that is too flipping expensive..even IF the trustee doesn't think so.

That's flipping insane and will set off red flags IMO. The professional grooming is also not necessary IMO if you cannot afford it. You are here so clearly you can't.

And PS--I get by on about 4.00 worth of litter a month. Not the scooping kind but I don't like that anyway as the cats will track that all over the house!

So yeah, to answer your question I think that your trustee will find it excessive. I certainly do and I'm on your side!

ep

[epiphany]

Thanks for all the great advice. Our vet actually told me this a month ago when we took our not so healthy 19 year old kitty in for her shoots. He advised against giving it to her so we didn't. He also told us that the FDA is looking into making the Rabies shot multi-year as well. It would be nice to not have to get the rabies shot for our indoor only kitties!!

I don't get the rabies shots for my indoor cats...never have. So many people think this is necessary but it's not.

If your cats never TRULY go outdoors, and they already have a clean bill of health, there is no reason for them to get any yearly shots. Ask your vet. If your vet is honest, he/she will confirm this.

But I gotta say, I like you for being an animal lover.

ep

[epiphany]

Thanks for all the great advice. Our vet actually told me this a month ago when we took our not so healthy 19 year old kitty in for her shoots. He advised against giving it to her so we didn't. He also told us that the FDA is looking into making the Rabies shot multi-year as well. It would be nice to not have to get the rabies shot for our indoor only kitties!!

I don't get the rabies shots for my indoor cats...never have. So many people think this is necessary but it's not.

If your cats never TRULY go outdoors, adn they already have a clean bill of health, there is no reason for them to get shots. Ask your vet. If your vet is honest, he/she will confirm this.

But I gotta say, I like you for being an animal lover.

ep

[brendamc67]

Readjusted...

Epiphay ... I hear you loud and clear and welcome your input.

OK. I readjusted things a bit. I deleted the flea control, since that seemed to set off red flags all over the place, and cut out the grooming (mind you, these are things we do pay for but I don't want to raise any undo interest).

Here's the complete picture. I am laying it all out here, so .... please tell me if anything else pops into your head as being excessive.
We live in Washington state and are $4,000 under the median.
Our income after taxes is $3,911 (that also includes deductions for our medical, dental and vision and a 401k loan, which I know may not be accepted).
Since we are under the median, I don't think we have to complete the means test (at least, when I looked at the form, it told me not to complete that test). But, of course, we have to list our living expenses.
Both my husband and I are diabetics. I take two kinds of insulin and my husband takes one. Our insurance has a $2,400 deductible for each of us and a $600 out of pocket for each of us. We meet/exceed that every year.
In addition, we have a strange rental situation, since we are renting from my mom to live on her property. My other siblings live here as well, in similar situations, and also pay rent. I am going to up the amount that I pay mom in rent and pray that it won't draw anyone's attention.
Here are the monthly expenses I have figured:
Car insurance: $83
Life insurance: $80
RV (full-time living similar to homeowner's) insurance: $77
Rent: $300
Phone (cell, no landline): $100
Cable: $110
Storage for all our furniture and other household items: $400
Electric and garbage: $100
Gasoline, car supplies, maintenance and registration: $330
Pending car repairs (new battery for car and/or new alternator, new windshield for truck because the truck leaks and the seal is bad): $75
Propane for heat and cooking: $200 (fill up all our tanks, purchase another large tank and fill it; begin cooking with it)
Average monthly cost of our prescribed medications: $500
OTC medicines and personal care supplies: $250
Pet care and supplies: $200 (veteranary exams for eight cats and three dogs, yearly vaccinations for all, flea and tick meds for dogs, flea meds for cats, monthly claw clips for dogs, groomings for three of the eight cats long-haired and need shavings of private areas, dog food, cat food, cat litter and outdoor dog bedding)
Groceries: $550
Dental and vision: $230 per month for the next two years to pay for Brenda's root canal, three crowns, cleaning and one filling and Rick's periodental cleaning and one crown
401k loan payment:
Donations: $20 per month ($10 to HSCC and $10 to Rescued Paws)
Clothing and laundry: $150
Recreation, gifts and club dues: $225
Repairs and maintenance for trailer: New roofing (908), fan replacement), new toilet ($169); $100 a month


These are not expenses from the last six months because all but about $200 of our money went to paying credit cards. Some of the things (car repairs and trailer repairs, for example) are not things we'll even be able to pay for right away since we have to save for the attorney.

Any input, positive or negative, is welcome.

***The only thing I worry about is that we will probably get a $1,600 tax refund next year (for 2010). I don't know how that's figured into everything.

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

...
Here's a breakdown:
...
Three bags of dry cat food each month, Purina Indoor: $39
One bag of Pedigree a month: $20
Three 24-packs of Costco wet food a month: $39
...
Three cats require grooming every three months (long-haired and weight problems that require special shaving): $240
Dog nail clips once a month:$ 27

There may be some savings by cutting the food, after all, you say they have weight problems.

[epiphany]

Epiphay ... I hear you loud and clear and welcome your input.

OK. I readjusted things a bit. I deleted the flea control, since that seemed to set off red flags all over the place, and cut out the grooming (mind you, these are things we do pay for but I don't want to raise any undo interest).

Here's the complete picture. I am laying it all out here, so .... please tell me if anything else pops into your head as being excessive.
We live in Washington state and are $4,000 under the median.
Our income after taxes is $3,911 (that also includes deductions for our medical, dental and vision and a 401k loan, which I know may not be accepted).
Since we are under the median, I don't think we have to complete the means test (at least, when I looked at the form, it told me not to complete that test). But, of course, we have to list our living expenses.
Both my husband and I are diabetics. I take two kinds of insulin and my husband takes one. Our insurance has a $2,400 deductible for each of us and a $600 out of pocket for each of us. We meet/exceed that every year.
In addition, we have a strange rental situation, since we are renting from my mom to live on her property. My other siblings live here as well, in similar situations, and also pay rent. I am going to up the amount that I pay mom in rent and pray that it won't draw anyone's attention.
Here are the monthly expenses I have figured:
Car insurance: $83
Life insurance: $80
RV (full-time living similar to homeowner's) insurance: $77
Rent: $300
Phone (cell, no landline): $100
Cable: $110
Storage for all our furniture and other household items: $400
Electric and garbage: $100
Gasoline, car supplies, maintenance and registration: $330
Pending car repairs (new battery for car and/or new alternator, new windshield for truck because the truck leaks and the seal is bad): $75
Propane for heat and cooking: $200 (fill up all our tanks, purchase another large tank and fill it; begin cooking with it)
Average monthly cost of our prescribed medications: $500
OTC medicines and personal care supplies: $250
Pet care and supplies: $200 (veteranary exams for eight cats and three dogs, yearly vaccinations for all, flea and tick meds for dogs, flea meds for cats, monthly claw clips for dogs, groomings for three of the eight cats long-haired and need shavings of private areas, dog food, cat food, cat litter and outdoor dog bedding)
Groceries: $550
Dental and vision: $230 per month for the next two years to pay for Brenda's root canal, three crowns, cleaning and one filling and Rick's periodental cleaning and one crown
401k loan payment:
Donations: $20 per month ($10 to HSCC and $10 to Rescued Paws)
Clothing and laundry: $150
Recreation, gifts and club dues: $225
Repairs and maintenance for trailer: New roofing (908), fan replacement), new toilet ($169); $100 a month


These are not expenses from the last six months because all but about $200 of our money went to paying credit cards. Some of the things (car repairs and trailer repairs, for example) are not things we'll even be able to pay for right away since we have to save for the attorney.

Any input, positive or negative, is welcome.

***The only thing I worry about is that we will probably get a $1,600 tax refund next year (for 2010). I don't know how that's figured into everything.

Well I think it sounds better and I don't see anything else I would raise an eyebrow at but I'm no lawyer. However, I don't think you will have a problem, seeing as you are under the median.

What I wanna know is where is it that you can rent ANYTHING for 300 a month? I'm in California and it's so flipping expensive to live!

ep

[brendamc67]

Re: Rent

The reason why our rent is low is because we are renting space from my mom on her property. We actually pay only $150 a month (that's what everybody else pays, so she said that's what we should pay too). I am going to raise it up to $300, though. For real, not just to look good. After listening to folks talk, it seems that is certainly more fair.
We pay our own cable/internet and one-quarter of the electric bill (we split it with my mom and two of my other siblings).
All that being said, if we were to try to rent a house (which would be practically impossible with all our pets), we would end up paying about $800 a month w/o utilities. At some point, we might do that, but not until some of my animal commitments end (which will be a while).
Up until January, we had a rental duplex. We paid $700 a month and that included cable, electric and w/s/g. We were very lucky to have that. My mom is elderly, and we really enjoy being out here on the farm with her. We lost my dad several a long time ago, so it's nice to have some quality time to spend with her.

Anyway, thanks again for your opinion. I am glad to see that you think nothing seems out of line. It's hard to gather a list of expenses for such a weird situation.

B

[spearmint]

That is a lot of money, as much as my car payment and car insurance payment combined.

I have 2 dogs and 2 cats, and I know what you mean as far as 4-legged children, and I would never suggest you get rid of them. We spend $20 a month in dog food, $10 a month in cat food, and we get our shots done at shot clinics, not the vet. Vets charge for vets visits, shot clinics only charge for the shots themselves. Also look for non-profit clinics. The place I got my dogs fixed at is non-profit and they clip nails for $5 and do shots for around $10 - $12 each. My dogs absolutely will not let me clip their nails and would never let me give them a shot. Tractor supply does sell the shots, for cheap, however, they need to stay refrigerated to stay useful. Plus, you really need to know what you are doing to inject the pet properly. I'm not a vet or vet tech so I really do not feel comfortable injecting an animal myself.

I also never feed my pets wet food. Too expensive. You could be buying organic Blue Buffalo food for the price you spend on wet & dry food.

Definitely cut out those cat flea meds.

What is the special shaving? That may be considered an unnecessary expense, unless there is a medical reason.

Cats fair way better on wet food than dried food. They need the moisture in the food. More health problems occur with cats fed a diet of dried food - per my "wonderful" Cornell-educated vet.

[helpmeout]

When I filed, I had two cats. I was allowed $40 a month towards pet expenses. I think the $400 a month is going to raise some eyebrows and in all likelihood, not be allowed.

[dumpinmydebt]

I've fed my cats dry food their whole lives and they have NEVER had health problems.

[NewPage]

I spent 10 years doing volunteer work with a cat rescue, as such I ended up with some that were not adoptable due to various issues. I HAVE to keep expenses down, while providing the best care I can to my fur-babies.

I included 200 per month, however I padded my food expense to cover it.

A couple tips to lower your pet care expenses:
1.) If the cats are indoor, it is cheaper as they do not need flea treatment. As long as your dogs are treated they will not bring fleas in. (over 900.00 savings)
2.) the ones that need special shaving...do it yourself. It takes more time, does not look as "pretty" but it does the job. Have someone help if needed.
3.) Look closely at your vaccinations. Cats need 1 distemper shot every 3 years, regardless if vet wants to do it yearly. Do your research on this. Cornell University is one of the nations top veterinary schools! Especially for indoor cats, with greatly reduced exposure to disease.
4.) Feline Leukemia is caught from other cats. If your cats are indoor (not around strange cats), and all test neg. for this, this shot is a waste of money. Before bringing in any new pets, test them first. This shot is also known for higher post vaccine issues. Again, do your research.
5.) with very little training, you can trim the dogs nails yourself. Just error on the side of the dog, meaning do not cut them too close and keep that stop-bled stuff close just in case. I have always cut their nails myself, it only takes a few minutes.
6.) Not sure where you get your litter, but Pets-Supplies Plus has a no scented cheap litter at 9.89 for 40lbs. (it clumps well) You have to clean the boxes daily, but with that many...you have to anyhow. So don't buy expensive litters. Most places also sell bulk litter much cheaper.

Anyhow...I keep my cats indoor for many reasons, only one of which is the greatly reduced pet care expense. What you do is entirely up to you, but I wanted to offer tips to greatly reduce those expenses.

All the best

Ditto the whole post. We don't vax our cats regularly, but when we do we get the vaccines from the farm supply place for about $17-$18 each and do it ourselves.

[SMinGA]

My cats do well on dry food also - occasionally get wet as a treat but that may be 3-4 times a year.

My older cat has no teeth*, is healthy on dry food. I use an 'indoor formula'.

*Long story: she lived w/ a typical old lady who owned dozens of cats. The lady had a stroke, her son put the cats in various shelters. The shelter that ended up with my cat saw she was in bad shape. Had only a few teeth remaining, and they were infected and she was severely underweight probably because it hurt to eat. They had her remaining teeth pulled, got her to start gaining weight again, and put her up for adoption once she was healthy enough. I adopted her for a standard adoption fee, with copies of all of her medical records. I don't remember the total but it was thousands on the bill - but those vet services were donated... I got her with a clean bill of health not long after her last few teeth were removed. She was on kitten food - softer as her gums were still tender & good for helping her to gain weight - but I was advised to transition to regular dry food after a few weeks and I did.

Cats fair way better on wet food than dried food. They need the moisture in the food. More health problems occur with cats fed a diet of dried food - per my "wonderful" Cornell-educated vet.

[ssmdem]

Cats fair way better on wet food than dried food. They need the moisture in the food. More health problems occur with cats fed a diet of dried food - per my "wonderful" Cornell-educated vet.

Maybe so - but my 16 year old cat won't touch it - never has. She's had dry food her entire life. No health problems at all except slowing down with age.

[brendamc67]

I feed the cats dry food all the time, with wet food maybe three or four times a year as a treat.
I feed our dogs dry food, but I have a medicine that they won't take without grinding it up into wet food. The medicine is one they have to take as it resolves a rather disgusting problem that one of the dog's has. I am not going to say what that problem is ....

[WhatMoney]

Cats fair way better on wet food than dried food. They need the moisture in the food. More health problems occur with cats fed a diet of dried food - per my "wonderful" Cornell-educated vet.

You are lucky to have an enlightened vet.

There will always be cat owners who think dry food is best for their cat, just like their will always be people who smoke and drink and sky dive until they are 95, and claim that proves there are no risk factors for doing it.

Has your cat ever had a UTI? Is your cat overweight? Will it develop Type II diabetes from the high carb diet in dry food?
Dr Pearson, DVM, says it best - check out her site:

http://www.catinfo.org/#My_Cat_is_Do...ne_on_Dry_Food

My Cat is Doing Just "Fine" on Dry Food!

BTW, plain old canned Friskies Pate variety in assorted flavors, is cheap and good enough - poultry platter being the best for ingredients. I get mine on sale for around 35 cents/5.5 oz can, and one can a day is enough for a 14 lb indoor male cat (about 185 kcal per can).