Losing "Stuff"

[Delav3]

I am married and filing by myself.

Going though and listing everything I own and the value of it has me fearing one thing: losing our stuff.

Technically my wife owns most everything like the television set/furniture/etc.

Are you subject to having property taken during a Chapter 7?

(I live in TN)

[JackBondLove]

Yes, and the type of stuff is dependent on the state's exemptions. Here in Louisiana, I was able to keep a $30K piano because here there is an exemption for musical instruments.

But basically, whatever is not exempt must be forfeited to the trustee (although (s)he will typically gladly let you buy it back.)

[Pandora]

*raises hand* Doesnt it also depend on if you're in a community-based state? Like VA is a community state....

If the husband files but the wife owns alot of her own items (for all intents and purposes, lets just use the example of family heirlooms on her side...) How could that count against the husband if the wife isnt filing?

[backtoschool]

It goes both ways in a community property state. All items are jointly owned, but the debt is also jointly owned, and the creditors can come after the non-filing spouse.

[justbroke]

Tennessee is an equitable division State, so the community property laws don't apply in this case. You may need to prove that the property actually belongs to your wife and that she used personal property (money) in order to acquire the property. If it was marital funds, that can get tricky. Depending on the property, you may have a tenancy by the entireties (TBE) claim so long as the debt doesn't belong to both you and your spouse.

If you actually have a lot of non-exempt property, you may want to file through an attorney who is good at asset protection. This is just a fact of bankruptcy. While most debtors do get to keep everything... not all debtors get to keep everything. You must always consider the true value of receiving a discharge. In my case, I discharged well over $1M in debt. I would have given up the TV, couch, and even my kitchen utensils to be rid of that debt!

[ugghh]

Tennessee is an equitable division State, so the community property laws don't apply in this case. You may need to prove that the property actually belongs to your wife and that she used personal property (money) in order to acquire the property. If it was marital funds, that can get tricky. Depending on the property, you may have a tenancy by the entireties (TBE) claim so long as the debt doesn't belong to both you and your spouse.

If you actually have a lot of non-exempt property, you may want to file through an attorney who is good at asset protection. This is just a fact of bankruptcy. While most debtors do get to keep everything... not all debtors get to keep everything. You must always consider the true value of receiving a discharge. In my case, I discharged well over $1M in debt. I would have given up the TV, couch, and even my kitchen utensils to be rid of that debt!

Wow... AND you filed pro se! Very impressive justbroke!

[Pandora]

Tennessee is an equitable division State, so the community property laws don't apply in this case. You may need to prove that the property actually belongs to your wife and that she used personal property (money) in order to acquire the property. If it was marital funds, that can get tricky. Depending on the property, you may have a tenancy by the entireties (TBE) claim so long as the debt doesn't belong to both you and your spouse.

If you actually have a lot of non-exempt property, you may want to file through an attorney who is good at asset protection. This is just a fact of bankruptcy. While most debtors do get to keep everything... not all debtors get to keep everything. You must always consider the true value of receiving a discharge. In my case, I discharged well over $1M in debt. I would have given up the TV, couch, and even my kitchen utensils to be rid of that debt!

Ahhhh grasshoppaaaaaaaaaa... teach us wise one

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!

[anime-chicka]

I filed by myself nearly two years ago. Every piece of furniture, except for my daybed, king sized bed and desk belongs to my husband. That furniture was given to him by his dad almost 20 years ago when he moved to Florida.

My FIL was more than willing to write a statement or if he had to, take time off from his job and fly up to go with me to the 341 to tell the trustee that the furniture wasn't worth much. And honestly, if you look at it, it probably wouldn't have gotten much anyway. The cushions on the chaise lounge are flat and desparately need to be refilled or have the foam replaced. The couch is scratched up from the cats using it as their scratching post, as is the dining room table and chair legs.

I know that I had to list who owned what when I was doing the paperwork, and when the final documents came out for me to sign, all of his items were nowhere to be found. Just mine.

[Delav3]

I filed by myself nearly two years ago. Every piece of furniture, except for my daybed, king sized bed and desk belongs to my husband. That furniture was given to him by his dad almost 20 years ago when he moved to Florida.

My FIL was more than willing to write a statement or if he had to, take time off from his job and fly up to go with me to the 341 to tell the trustee that the furniture wasn't worth much. And honestly, if you look at it, it probably wouldn't have gotten much anyway. The cushions on the chaise lounge are flat and desparately need to be refilled or have the foam replaced. The couch is scratched up from the cats using it as their scratching post, as is the dining room table and chair legs.

I know that I had to list who owned what when I was doing the paperwork, and when the final documents came out for me to sign, all of his items were nowhere to be found. Just mine.

Did they end up taking the things that were yours?

[AngelinaCatHub]

Normally and I believe in almost every case, what you came into your marriage as personal property belonging to you before your marriage stays yours. I've been wrong before, but let's say your ggrandmothers engagement ring of 1880 was in your family, I cannot see a marriage calling it your husbands for bk or divorce. Clear my mind about this too. Now things purchased AFTER the marriage no matter who's money is a different story. 'Hub

[starr4law]

I think that the other thing that the trustee will look at is the income. Let's say for the sake of argument that you make 100k a year and your wife makes 10k a year. The trustee could make the argument that there is no way she could own basically 100% of the assets since she doesn't make enough for said purchases. Also, was any of the stuff purchased with the credit cards that you are discharging? If the cards are in your name alone, then the only person that could have purchased the stuff would be you. Do you see what I mean?

Good luck.

[Delav3]

I think that the other thing that the trustee will look at is the income. Let's say for the sake of argument that you make 100k a year and your wife makes 10k a year. The trustee could make the argument that there is no way she could own basically 100% of the assets since she doesn't make enough for said purchases. Also, was any of the stuff purchased with the credit cards that you are discharging? If the cards are in your name alone, then the only person that could have purchased the stuff would be you. Do you see what I mean?

Good luck.

Yeah I get it. Actually right now the only thing that I have that a credit card was used on is an old tv (this debt is from 6-8 years ago).

[DeadManCrawling]

Asset protection is good, and you should employ every legal benefit you can.

But don't lose your grip on sanity or reality in so doing. When we filed, we turned over a nonexempt vehicle worth about 15k or so. Simply had no way to exempt it. We came up with all sorts of ideas that might have worked, and legally, though. In the grand scheme of things, though, it wasn't worth it.

Though two of the ideas we had are/were perfectly legal, they could have ended up with us being tossed out on a "bad faith" or "totality" claim. You see, even though it would have been legal, it would have involved a long trail of maneuvers. Taken one by one, they were fine. When looked at as a whole, against the bk filing, they looked rather suspicious. And even though we could have defended each and every move, from a legal point of view, the overall taste of it wasn't good to us, our attorney, and would have caused more trouble than it was worth.

Giving up an asset or several, to rid yourself of a cloud of debt is worth it sometimes. In our case, we lost a 15k asset but also removed 800k or more in debt. A small price.

As I said, employ every exemption you can, within reason, but don't reach for exotic methods or you could come to regret it later.

Good luck,

-dmc