Could you critique my Schedules I & J?

[Fallonedward]

Laurie: I wanted to thank you, had it not been for this post, I would not have known that I could have added Educations Expenses to my line item. school supplies/lunches/school fees/6th grade science camp, dang it all adds up to one very large amount.

The public schools in my area are charging for every little thing now

Pet care is absolutely permitted in Ohio (at least from what we see). In fact, I attended a training at which our Chapter 13 trustee was a presenter and he indicated that he would certainly be a lot more amenable to a pet expense than say to someone putting cigarettes or anything more than about $50 per month in entertainment in his/her budget. We add in $50 per month unless they have numerous or large pets (horses etc) and then we jack that up a bit.

Also, we commonly add significant school supplies/lunches (use the max in the means test and the actual in J).... kids cost money... I know that all too well having been a foster parent for many, many years myself.

We put in a minimum of $75 per month for home maintenance as well... I always ask the clients about the condition of their homes in fact. If I see that they have unusually high utility bills, I assume they're in need of new windows, a new roof or insulation and we add more (we've actually put in as much as $300 per month on that line and not had it questioned).

I've seen numerous posts on here about student loans not being permitted in J... we include them all the time, specifically if you could argue that most of the unsecured debt was incurred attempting to keep up with the student loans.

[Fallonedward]

Since I'm the only one working, I had to change my federal deductions to M-8 (we are a family of 5) because I needed that extra money. Do you think that will be a problem to the trustee?

No sir, it will not get your case dismissed, but it may turn your case into an asset case. Obviously, being as close as you are on your DMI, stopping the witholding to bring you more in line with $0 refund would easily push you into a 13, so no go there. Just be aware that you may become an asset case due to your anticipated refund.

I can see bumping you food and medical expenses a bit, as well as what I previously mentioned regarding vehcile licensing & registration fees, Costco or Sam's club memberships, AAA membership, etc. Also, do you not have personal care expenses? I see haircuts, etc only under the non-filing spouse's expenses.

[platter]

that is good to know. we don't have any pets anymore.... to heart breaking.. for us when we have lost them. we just can't go through it again.

When my cat died about 15 years ago, I didn't think I'd get another animal because of losing them and feeling hurt but I finally have since then. As for you, what about fostering animals? Many rescues are begging for fosters for dogs and cats. That way you know you're helping them out because otherwise some would be pts because there's no foster home for them to go to until they get their forever home. And it wouldn't bother you as much to let them go because you know you helped them to get where they need be.

[ccsjoe]

I believe their position is if it's required to retain your employment and not reimbursed by your employer, it's allowable. If you're getting the certification just to have the possibility of getting a higher paying job, a raise, or just for intellectual curiosity, it's not allowable.

mrbrown, I was in the process of answering this question when you posted. Much more eloquently and to the point than I had, I might add.

[mb10240]

I wonder if taking short computer courses and the fees to get certifications are considered CE?

I believe their position is if it's required to retain your employment and not reimbursed by your employer, it's allowable. If you're getting the certification just to have the possibility of getting a higher paying job, a raise, or just for intellectual curiosity, it's not allowable.

[Okieblue]

I wonder if taking short computer courses and the fees to get certifications are considered CE?

[mb10240]

I just figured I'd provide an update regarding allowable expenses... Did a little research with fastcase and by pulling some cases with PACER from a local attorney (that I had a job interview with a few months ago, ironically)...

Student loan payments and debt service of the non-filing spouse are allowable expenses, at least in my district.

Continuing education is an allowable expense on both Schedule J and the Means Test (specifically on line 29)... This seems to be a national standard, and the USTP takes the position that it's allowable, as long as it's continuing education versus "lifetime learning."

[Pandora]

Yeah, I know there are different answers to it - but I thought it was only your student loans you couldnt claim - not your wifes since she isnt filing. Have no idea LOL just thought I'd ask because I noticed you said she had her own as well as her own personal debt, and it wasnt listed.

Oh I'm sure it is expensive to open your own practice - absolutely. Wishing you well and hope you find something soon!

[mb10240]

but given you have no income and must use your wife's as your basis - wouldnt her student loans and credit cards be counted on hers, since she is paying everything essentially, even though she isnt filing?

It's really a good question that nobody seems to have a standard answer to. I've heard at least three different answers just hear on this forum!

I wonder how hard the trustee is going to be on you since you're an attorney :/ Do you think he/she will ask why you arent practicing / employed given you are an attorney? Do you think your debts will be scrutinized as business expenses vs. personal?

Well, I've got that covered. I've applied for over 50 positions since June (more if you go back to January)... I even applied for positions in St. Louis and Kansas City, both of which are several hours away. I've had 9 interviews and no offers. I'm registered with a legal temp agency out of Kansas City, but they haven't had any assignments available for several months.

As for opening my own practice, I simply can't. The money's not there.. If it was, I wouldn't be filing for bankruptcy.

[Pandora]

My wife has several student loans and a few credit cards which are not included in her schedule, but numerous people here have said I can't take those expenses in my Schedule J. I tried searching for a case on the subject, and the only one I could find was in the 9th circuit -- the court basically said that creditors of the filing spouse should receive the same treatment as creditors of the NFS and the NFS's debt should not be included.

but given you have no income and must use your wife's as your basis - wouldnt her student loans and credit cards be counted on hers, since she is paying everything essentially, even though she isnt filing?


I wonder how hard the trustee is going to be on you since you're an attorney :/ Do you think he/she will ask why you arent practicing / employed given you are an attorney? Do you think your debts will be scrutinized as business expenses vs. personal?

[mb10240]

Gas - $70 for an entire month for you. With gas prices nearing $2.70 a gallon, I cant even fill my hybrid up for less than $30. Maybe if you dont drive anywhere but otherwise, I think thats low.

You have no vehicle maintenance set aside - do you not plan on changing oil/rotating tires/issues with car at all?

Realistically speaking, we spend about $190/mo. in gas. I haven't really driven anywhere since I've been unemployed... lol..

I should probably increase transportation costs, though, to account for oil, tires, and other vehicle maintenance.

Clothing seems very low - you're an attorney - there has to be costs there for clothing. IRS standard I believe is $25 a month per person. Especially since your drycleaning is more than the cost of your clothing allowance.

Haven't bought any new clothes in a while, actually...

Did you check to see if you can include your bar fees and the continuing education fees for certain?

There aren't too many cases where somebody took bar dues, but the one I found out of Nebraska (which is here in the 8th circuit) seems to indicate that bar dues are an allowable expense. In that case, the Debtor was attempting to have her student loans discharged, so they analyzed all of her expenses, several of which they disallowed... the bar dues weren't disallowed out of those expenses.

No idea about the continuing education, though. I do need it to stay licensed, though, otherwise I'll have to voluntarily suspend my license, and reinstatement is a real b***h.

Current income is... just your wifes? are you bringing anything in at all? Also note that if you / your wife get paid 26 pay periods vs. 24 you need to average it out appropriately as the monthly amounts change based on how you're paid.

My wife gets paid monthly, so that's not a problem -- only 12 pay periods in a year!

As to my income, I worked with an attorney for a brief time in April-June, but I've been unemployed since June, and my income while there was not that great... in addition, she misclassifed me as an independent contractor, which made me liable for SE taxes, made me pay for my own malpractice insurance, and did not reimburse my vehicle expenses.

I did have a temporary assignment through the local temp agency a few days ago, but that's the first assignment I've received in ten months... I earned about $118. It is by no means "regular income" and not expected to continue.

are there any student loans, credit cards, personal loans that you havent included in your wife's schedule? Make sure you account for everything....

My wife has several student loans and a few credit cards which are not included in her schedule, but numerous people here have said I can't take those expenses in my Schedule J. I tried searching for a case on the subject, and the only one I could find was in the 9th circuit -- the court basically said that creditors of the filing spouse should receive the same treatment as creditors of the NFS and the NFS's debt should not be included.

[Pandora]

mrbrown -

are there any student loans, credit cards, personal loans that you havent included in your wife's schedule? Make sure you account for everything....

[Pandora]

I see a few areas that are low:

Gas - $70 for an entire month for you. With gas prices nearing $2.70 a gallon, I cant even fill my hybrid up for less than $30. Maybe if you dont drive anywhere but otherwise, I think thats low.

You have no vehicle maintenance set aside - do you not plan on changing oil/rotating tires/issues with car at all?

Clothing seems very low - you're an attorney - there has to be costs there for clothing. IRS standard I believe is $25 a month per person. Especially since your drycleaning is more than the cost of your clothing allowance.

Auto insurance will probably go up once you file - so account for that and be prepared.

Did you check to see if you can include your bar fees and the continuing education fees for certain?

Any increases in utilities you know are coming, you need to use the actual vs. what is now for promotional. You can prove that expense will increase.

Current income is... just your wifes? are you bringing anything in at all? Also note that if you / your wife get paid 26 pay periods vs. 24 you need to average it out appropriately as the monthly amounts change based on how you're paid.

[mb10240]

Updated Schedule J

I've updated my Schedule J -- since a great number of these expenses fluctuate, I tried to take the average based on the last year's worth of bank statements (where I've taken the average, I've duly noted it here for you). Other expenses are standard and do not change month-to-month. Remember, I'm an individual filing -- my spouse is not filing.

Debtor's:
2c. Telephone: 37.63 (just phone service, actual cost w/ taxes)
3d. Other utilities: Cell phone service: $75.00
Television service w/ DirecTV: 83.67
Trash collection: 15.72
DSL through AT&T: 20.00 (should I just include this with phone?)
Long distance through Pioneer Telephone: 2.00 (same?)
Total Other Utilities: 196.39

3. Home maintenance: $0.00
4. Food: $275
5. Clothing: $13.72 (avg.)
6. Laundry & dry cleaning: $15.00 (avg.)
7. Medical & dental expenses: $60.00
8. Transportation: $70.00
9. Recreation: $50 (avg. -- generally $146/mo... gave my wife the bigger share).
10. Charitable donations: $0
11c. Health insurance: $140
11d. Auto insurance: $52.50
12. Personal property taxes: $7.73 (due yearly for vehicle reg.)
13a. Auto payment: $289.19
17. Other expenses:
Personal care items & related expenses: $45.00
Missouri bar dues (due yearly, prorated): $17.00
Pet care (my animals): $56.82
Local bar association dues (due yearly, prorated): $11.67
Continuing Education & related expenses: $50.00
Mailing supplies & postage for bills, résumés, etc.: $10.00
Total Other: $190.49

18. Average monthly expenses: $1397.65
19. Expected increases & decreases: "DirecTV will increase as "rebates" expire, AT&T DSL and phone line will increase as "promotional" pricing expires in November & February. Health insurance premium has regularly increased every year in February."

Non-Filing Spouse:
1. Rent/Mortgage: $758.04 (taxes & property ins. included)
2a. Electricity: $150.00 (avg.)
2b. Water / sewer: $30.00 (avg.)
2d. Other: Cell Phone Service: $63.00
3. Home maintenance: $100
4. Food: $275
5. Clothing: $13.74 (avg.)
6. Laundry & dry cleaning: $20 (avg.)
7. Medical / dental: $60
8. Transportation: $137.00
9. Recreation: $75 (wife has family in New England & has to go to professional dinners, etc. for her job).
10. Charitable contributions: $5.00
11d. Auto insurance: $35.83
12. Personal property taxes: $7.73
17. Other expenses:
HOA dues: $2
Pet care (for spouse's pets): $56.84 (avg., split among us equally)
Personal care items & expenses: $100.00
Total: $158.84

Average Monthly Expenses: $1889.18

STATEMENT OF MONTHLY NET INCOME
a. Schedule I: 3228.67
b. Schedule J: 3286.83
c. Net: -58.16

I don't think any of those expenses are unreasonable. Is there anything sticking out to anybody that's a red flag?

I could see pet care expenses possibly triggering a red flag, but I do have receipts and documentation to back up the expenses for our 4 animals. $112 a month isn't unreasonable for 4 animals, IMHO.

[Pandora]

I may be able to use the OTC ones for an expense -- a month's worth of guards runs anywhere from $15.99-$34.99 at Walgreens, depending on the quality.

Here's another question for expenses... I have an opportunity to practice law pro bono and at a reduced fee for my local legal aid office, which would be very beneficial to my future career. However, malpractice insurance would not be provided, so I'd have to provide my own. Does anybody think I could justify this as an expense?

If your wife grinds or clenches hard - the OTC ones will do no good I'm afraid You'll end up spending that $16-35 every month for the expense - its better just to get custom guards made once and be done with it. They will be much more comfortable for her especially if she's a mouth breather or gets a head cold and is all stopped up. Trust me....

Now if thats what you're looking to do in order to get your DMI down - then you would just add that under medical expenses - it cant be a separate expense category unto itself. What are you claiming for medical? The usual seems to be $60 per person from IRS standards - anything over and above that and you may have to prove you spend it through receipts.