Can our lawyer do this?

[Kingxray]

Hi all,

I apologize if I am posting this twice but the website has changed since I last visited and I'm not sure if my original thread got posted.

Several years ago we paid our lawyer to file a chapter 7 case for us. After two unsucessful attempts we agreed to convert it to a chapter 13. Knowing that in general lawyers charge more for chapter 13 case, I called ours to ask how much more it would be. He said he would not charge us anything further. Our lawyer failed to file our payment plan in time so our case was dismissed. We had made 2 payments at this point. The judge told us to just refile. Since then the trustee sent us a letter stating that she was returning the 2 payments we made with a check payable to us and that the check would be sent to our lawyer. I emailed his office and asked about the whereabouts of this check and I was told it was used for legal and filing fees! How can he do this? The check was made payble to us. I even have the check number. I never received an invoice or was told that I was going to be billed for these "so called" services. I sent his office another email regarding this and have received no response. I don't want to call and put up a stink cuz we just refiled and we need him to get through the 341. We can't afford to start over with a new lawyer. We were going to save this money to make our first 2 payments after we refiled. Any thoughts? Thanks much.

[newbie2]

Let me see if I have this straight: You filed a Chapter 7 several years ago (paid your attorney) and it was converted to a Chapter 13. You missed a couple of payments and the Chapter 13 was dismissed. The trustee sent the balance in the plan back to your attorney (made check out to you) and then you re-filed again for a Chapter 13. (Do I have this correct?)

Ok..if I have it right: Your attorney should have gone over with you what the fees were for all the work he put in to 3 separate bankruptcy filings. Instead, it sounds as if he deposited the check made out to you to apply to the fees you accumulated for his work.

Whew..what a mess huh? My 2 cents only: It can't possibly be right to deposit a check made out to someone else unless you endorsed it over to him. What should have happened was an invoice being sent to you, or, a sit down meeting with your attorney to discuss how he was going to get paid for 3 filings. You really need to have that meeting with him for more than just to go over the deposited check. If you don't have the money to make your first 2 payments on your second attempt at a Chapter 13 you really have a problem. Either you haven't learned to budget yet so you have the monthly payments to make it through your plan, or you don't have a plan that is feasible. Either way, make an appointment to sit down with your attorney soon to get all of this straightened out.

[researchnerd]

Several years ago we paid our lawyer to file a chapter 7 case for us. After two unsucessful attempts we agreed to convert it to a chapter 13. Knowing that in general lawyers charge more for chapter 13 case, I called ours to ask how much more it would be. He said he would not charge us anything further. Our lawyer failed to file our payment plan in time so our case was dismissed. We had made 2 payments at this point. The judge told us to just refile.

newbie2, it sounds like the OP's Ch13 was dismissed because the attorney messed up, not because they missed payments.

I don't know the legalities of depositing a check with someone else's name on it, but it doesn't sound right to me. I do agree that a face-to-face meeting is in order at this point. At the very least, there's been a miscommunication -- maybe the attorney meant "I won't charge you anything further...after I cash this check from the Trustee." You don't have to make a stink, but you should make it really clear that you are disappointed in the way it's been handled so far, and ask how they will fix that in the future. Let them know that your Ch13 plan is at risk because of their actions. Ask for an itemized invoice, say it's for your tax records if nothing else. This is not an unreasonable request.

[tobee43]

Hi all,

I apologize if I am posting this twice but the website has changed since I last visited and I'm not sure if my original thread got posted.

Several years ago we paid our lawyer to file a chapter 7 case for us. After two unsucessful attempts we agreed to convert it to a chapter 13. Knowing that in general lawyers charge more for chapter 13 case, I called ours to ask how much more it would be. He said he would not charge us anything further. Our lawyer failed to file our payment plan in time so our case was dismissed. We had made 2 payments at this point. The judge told us to just refile. Since then the trustee sent us a letter stating that she was returning the 2 payments we made with a check payable to us and that the check would be sent to our lawyer. I emailed his office and asked about the whereabouts of this check and I was told it was used for legal and filing fees! How can he do this? The check was made payble to us. I even have the check number. I never received an invoice or was told that I was going to be billed for these "so called" services. I sent his office another email regarding this and have received no response. I don't want to call and put up a stink cuz we just refiled and we need him to get through the 341. We can't afford to start over with a new lawyer. We were going to save this money to make our first 2 payments after we refiled. Any thoughts? Thanks much.

really sorry for your situation...just a bit of advise, and i know hindsight is always 20/20 or to quote hhm.."blind" may be more apropos..but always have a written contract.....especially with an atty for fees...by law they are suppose to provide you with one at the time you retain them...if not immediately after.

[backtoschool]

Hi all,

I apologize if I am posting this twice but the website has changed since I last visited and I'm not sure if my original thread got posted.

Several years ago we paid our lawyer to file a chapter 7 case for us. After two unsucessful attempts we agreed to convert it to a chapter 13. Knowing that in general lawyers charge more for chapter 13 case, I called ours to ask how much more it would be. He said he would not charge us anything further. Our lawyer failed to file our payment plan in time so our case was dismissed. We had made 2 payments at this point. The judge told us to just refile. Since then the trustee sent us a letter stating that she was returning the 2 payments we made with a check payable to us and that the check would be sent to our lawyer. I emailed his office and asked about the whereabouts of this check and I was told it was used for legal and filing fees! How can he do this? The check was made payble to us. I even have the check number. I never received an invoice or was told that I was going to be billed for these "so called" services. I sent his office another email regarding this and have received no response. I don't want to call and put up a stink cuz we just refiled and we need him to get through the 341. We can't afford to start over with a new lawyer. We were going to save this money to make our first 2 payments after we refiled. Any thoughts? Thanks much.

Hi Kingxray,

I remember you from last year. Of course your attorney had no legal right to cash checks made out to you and not endorsed by you. I would have to assume that the trustee made the checks out to the attorney.

Your attorney should not have billed you for services without checking with you first. I would call your attorney and get an itemized list of what he charged you for.

There would be additional court fees with each refiling so that money would have to be paid for and maybe that is what the attorney used the money for.

Your two payments to your prior plan would not really affect your new plan, so although the money is gone, it should not put you behind in your new plan.

[Kingxray]

Thank you for your responses and nice to hear from you again backtoschool. Just to clarify, when we hired our lawyer we did sign a contract and pay him in full. When our case was converted from a chapter 7 to 13 the courts waived the filing fee. The lawyer told me he would not charge us anything additional for the chapter 13. We were never once late with our payments. We made those payments prior to our 341 but our lawyer did not file the plan with the courts in a timely fashion therefore it was dismissed. The money was then returned to us through our lawyer who took it and cashed it for himself. We just refiled our petition and payment plan yesterday, so we have yet to make our first payment. Again, there was never an issue with the payments we made. The issue is with the lawyer taking the money that was suppose to be returned to us. Thanks again. I'm just not sure what to say when I call him. I don't want to jeopardize our case. This BK has dragged on too long and we need it to be over.

[backtoschool]

Thank you for your responses and nice to hear from you again backtoschool. Just to clarify, when we hired our lawyer we did sign a contract and pay him in full. When our case was converted from a chapter 7 to 13 the courts waived the filing fee. The lawyer told me he would not charge us anything additional for the chapter 13. We were never once late with our payments. We made those payments prior to our 341 but our lawyer did not file the plan with the courts in a timely fashion therefore it was dismissed. The money was then returned to us through our lawyer who took it and cashed it for himself. We just refiled our petition and payment plan yesterday, so we have yet to make our first payment. Again, there was never an issue with the payments we made. The issue is with the lawyer taking the money that was suppose to be returned to us. Thanks again. I'm just not sure what to say when I call him. I don't want to jeopardize our case. This BK has dragged on too long and we need it to be over.

Here is what I would ask him for:

1. An itemized list of expenses and fees incurred thus far.
2. A copy of the checks he cashed. You can say that these are "for your records".
3. An itemized list of expenses that he is still going to charge you for moving forward.

If he has a problem producing any of that, then I would then follow up and remind him that it was his late filing of your plan that caused the bk to be dismissed, and that although you have decided not to report him for negligence, you would like to see this matter expedited.

There is no way that he could have cashed checks that were made out to you, unless he has some power of attorney or the checks were made out to the law firm and not you.

[Kingxray]

Thanks BTS that is what I'll say and hope he caves. I have an appointment tomorrow.
In the letter that the trustee sent me she stated "Check # 0000 in the amount of 000.00 was made payable to "us". Then I got a letter from the court the other day stating "All checks distributed by the trustee have cleared the bank". I wonder how he did it. Ugh....I just feel so ripped off. BTW: Congrats on your case closing!

[majorbk]

Ok, doesn't the money really have to go to the lawyer? Let me get this straight. You paid your lawyer to file and it got dismissed. A refund was made to refile. Then the lawyer refiles again. Shouldn't the money go to the refile. Trying to understand

[Kingxray]

Ok, doesn't the money really have to go to the lawyer? Let me get this straight. You paid your lawyer to file and it got dismissed. A refund was made to refile. Then the lawyer refiles again. Shouldn't the money go to the refile. Trying to understand

No the lawyer was paid in full up front. The refund came from the trustee for the 2 months worth of payments we made to the trustee toward our chapter 13 case before the case got dismissed. It was never meant for our lawyer.

[majorbk]

I get it now! Long day!

[backtoschool]

Thanks BTS that is what I'll say and hope he caves. I have an appointment tomorrow.
In the letter that the trustee sent me she stated "Check # 0000 in the amount of 000.00 was made payable to "us". Then I got a letter from the court the other day stating "All checks distributed by the trustee have cleared the bank". I wonder how he did it. Ugh....I just feel so ripped off. BTW: Congrats on your case closing!

Thanks for the congrats Kingxray! It feels so good to have that all behind me now.

I would ask to see copies of the checks. Perhaps the checks were made out to your attorney on behalf of you or perhaps you signed a power of attorney of some sort in regards to bankruptcy communications and matters. Illegally endorsing a check is a crime and could get your lawyer disbarred so I have to believe that the check was not made out to you....

Is this attorney worth the grief? Does he know the trustee? Do you feel he can get you a fair and do-able plan?

[Kingxray]

You won't believe this! Talked to our lawyer today about the money. He said, "Oh yeah, I think I saw an email on that". Then he said, "It must have got mixed up with our deposit but the bank shouldn't have cashed it. I'll check on that and cut you a check". Yahoo! Turns out I didn't need to use your good advice after all, backtoschool but thanks anyway.

[backtoschool]

You won't believe this! Talked to our lawyer today about the money. He said, "Oh yeah, I think I saw an email on that". Then he said, "It must have got mixed up with our deposit but the bank shouldn't have cashed it. I'll check on that and cut you a check". Yahoo! Turns out I didn't need to use your good advice after all, backtoschool but thanks anyway.

That's great news Kingxray! Keep us updated on how your new 341 goes.