Debtor Education Service

[lrprn]

The post-filing financial mgt course can be done anytime after you file, but no later than 45 days after your 341 meeting. Failure to do so will prevent issuance of your discharge. You must get your bk case # before taking this course. The certificate needs to be filed by the above deadline, in other words, before the deadline for objections (60 days after the 341).

This is true for Ch 7.

Ch 13 filers have to take the second post-filing financial management course sometime before discharge - could be years into their plan. There's no day limit for Ch 13.

[Boscoe]

The pre-filing debtor education can be done anytime within 180 days before you file. Must be done before you file, as you need to attach the certificate of completion to your bk forms when you file.

The post-filing financial mgt course can be done anytime after you file, but no later than 45 days after your 341 meeting. Failure to do so will prevent issuance of your discharge. You must get your bk case # before taking this course. The certificate needs to be filed by the above deadline, in other words, before the deadline for objections (60 days after the 341).

[lrprn]

See my response to you at http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...745#post107745. I've only mentioned PRE-FILING certificates. You're talking about POST-FILING, PRE-DISCHARGE certificates. You're comparing apples and oranges here.

[lrprn]

I think you're confused. Chapter 7 filers have to file TWO certificates.

I'm well aware that the current bankruptcy law requires all bankruptcy filers to complete two education courses when they file Ch 7 or Ch 13 - one PRE-filing credit counseling course approved by the DOJ for the filer's state and one POST-filing, PRE-DISCHARGE financial management course also approved by the DOJ for the filer's state.

All I've said from the start is that the originally posted site does not meet DOJ requirements for PRE-FILING certificates. I haven't said a thing about POST-FILING, PRE-DISCHARGE certificates.

We're dealing with semantics confusion here. The DOJ calls the post-filing, pre-discharge course a financial education course. You call it a debtor education course. It's easy to get these confused with all the different terms flowing around bankruptcy and non-bankruptcy credit counseling and debt management courses.

Are we straight now?

[monkey hands]

Irprn,

some more links supporting my case:

http://www.************************/...gement-course/

http://www.legalhelpers.com/bankruptcy-articles/brc-articles-debtor-education.html

[monkey hands]

Irprn,

I reread the posts and both courses are discussed, but the thread is mainly centered around debtor education. I think you're confused. Chapter 7 filers have to file TWO certificates.

1. Pre-filing credit counsiling - what you are talking about
2. Pre-discharge 'debt education' also called financial management course for debtors. You HAVE to have a certificate from this course in order for your debts to be discharged.

I see you filed chapter 13 so maybe that doesn't require both courses (I don't know for sure, but I think you do have to take it eventually too. You just have longer to take it). You shouldn't be misleading people filing Chapter 7 by telling them the REQUIRED debtor education course has nothing to do with bankruptcy. I think there are a lot of self filers on here and they could really get hosed if they neglect this requirement. Check out this PDF if you didn't from my first post. Explains why you need both. (Note this comes from the USDOJ website)

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/docs/FTC_Consumer_AlertCC.pdf

GLC, yes you do need a bankruptcy case number in order to complete the debtor education course. The certificate you are issued has to have your case number filled in in order for it to be valid.

[lrprn]

do you have to have a case # to proceed with this course from bk court?

GLC, debt management courses have nothing to do with bankruptcy. A debtor takes a debt management course to try to sort out their debt problems insetead of filing bankruptcy.

Don't be fooled into thinking that taking a debt management course is the same as taking the required pre-filing credit counseling course that must be one approved by the DOJ - it isn't. The confusion comes in when agencies offer both types of courses. But only the DOJ-approved credit counseling courses can be used to meet the requirement for credit counseling before filing bankruptcy.

[lrprn]

Note to MonkeyHands

MonkeyHands, if you read what I posted carefully, I said that the DOJ does not approve the poster's agency for the mandatory pre-filing bankruptcy certificate for credit counseling.

I stand by my original posting.

This thread is about 'Debtor Education' not 'Credit Counciling"

And our members turned it into a credit counseling discussion, not debtor education. Read the whole thread.

Also, to correct Irprn's insertion above debtor-ed.com IS an approved providor of debtor education although they seem to be kind of expensive.

But DebtorEd CANNOT BE USED FOR THE PRE-FILING CREDIT COUNSELING CERTIFICATE. They are NOT approved by the DOJ for that - only to give debtor education. Debtor education has NOTHING to do with filing bankruptcy.

[glc4122]

debt management course

do you have to have a case # to proceed with this course from bk court?

[monkey hands]

Note to Moderator

After seeing lrprn's modification of the posts above, I felt compelled to upgrade from lurker to active status on these boards. This thread is about 'Debtor Education' not 'Credit Counciling"

Irprn's link is for credit counsilors so it makes sense that some of the debtor education providors would not be listed on the Credit Counciling list (although some companies offer both)

For a list of Debtor Educators - go to this USDOJ link (ignore Irprn's link or you'll take the wrong class)

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/de_approved.htm

For an explanation of the two different programs go here:

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/docs/FTC_Consumer_AlertCC.pdf

Also, to correct Irprn's insertion above www.debtor-ed.com IS an approved providor of debtor education although they seem to be kind of expensive. I don't know about the other post Irprn edited since it was deleted, but I assume that one was approved as well since Irprn is going off of the wrong list.

There are a lot of providers at http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/de_approved.htm for each state - There are a few under $20 and they all seem to have the same features (can complete online, they email certificates to you and your lawyer, etc.) The cheapest seems to be $15.95

[finallyfree!]

[Members, be sure to cross-check whether your state bankruptcy court accepts this credit counseling agency at http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/cc_approved.htm . Five states I checked at random (CA, KS, MO, NY, and OH) do *NOT* list this agency and won't accept certificates from them. -lrprn, forum moderator]

I did www.debtor-ed.com . It was very easy, and online. They sent the results right to me and to my atty. It did take a few hours though. And, I have a copy of my budget from them to!

[Misha707]

Hummingbird only makes you do that affidavit if you can't or don't want to pay by paypal or (get this) *credit card*. You can also use a debit card.

[Tex]

Cheapest one I found...

The cheapest class I found online is

[weblink and related information deleted by moderator because site posted is not approved by DOJ's list of approved credit counseling agencies in any state - http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/ccde/cc_approved.htm ]

This is a spam posting and could be hiding a phishing attempt to get your financial information as well. This poster has been permanently banned.

[Boscoe]

That sounds like a good one. Other one that worked well is www.freshstartonline.org $50 per couple for each the debtor education (pre-filing) and financial mgt (post filing). Course is all on line and they too send a copy to you and to your attorney.

[brokeinmichigan]

I don't think it gets any easier than the course at www.debtor-ed.com. We did it last weekend. It was quick and painless. Didn't have to phone in for anything. At the end, they email your certificate of completion immediately and you can print it. They also email it immediately to your atty.