A bit confused on timelines/deadlines

[DesdemonaB]

Sorry I am just still just a little confused about timing and deadlines – I have read the sticky on deadlines to sweat out but in that thread Gman states holidays and weekends are included – but I have read other threads where others have said they are not counted. Hence the confusion.

My time line if I understand correctly is:

Filed 11.12.2010
Objections to Discharge 2.20.2011
341 scheduled 12.22.2010 – appeared UST requested a continuation
341 continued 12.30.2010 – UST requested I return with car title, 401K statements, and judgment papers
341 held 1.12.2011 – reviewed titled, asked her questions – and then stated she had no more questions I was free to go. – didn’t ask or review 401K statements or judgment papers.
Trustee’s initial report & First Meeting Held 1.12.2011 – entered into PACER 1.18.2011
Status as of 1.31.2011 “awaiting discharge” begin date 1.18.2011 13 days.

I am reading this as:
My creditors & UST have 21 days left to object to the discharge. – Now void

My 341 meeting date is now truly 1.12.2011 not 12.22.2010 – which means I now have till 3.12.2011 to complete my last credit counseling course.

My UST has 1 day to file a POA on my means test – which I came 11.00 over.

My UST has 17 days to file a Report of No Distribution – I am a no asset case.

And I have 47 days left for my creditors and UST to file a claim or object to the discharge.

Am I right? This is including weekends and holidays.

[DesdemonaB]

Even more confused..

So I just checked PACER
My UST filed.... Trustee's Interm Report - as predicted as today was day 14
On the bottom.. it states the following:
Major Activities affecting the case closing: 1/19/2011 Trustee is pursuring tax refund

THIS I UNDERSTAND - she told me she would be taking me refund... BUT the interm report puts line 5 as 2010 Tax Refund at 1,000 which is what I claim in the BK BUT there is a line 14 unscheduled Federal Tax Refund of 4,350 - ENV of 4,350 - gross value of remaining assets of 4,350.

I have NEVER had a tax refund of 4,350 in my life - and as the sole financial support of 2 kids 2010 I have less taxable income then I have in my life. Does this mean I must pay her the remainer balance of my "unscheduled" Federal Tax Refund??? So if I get as an example 1000 back do I have to pay her the remaining 3,350???

[DesdemonaB]

So Confused...

PACER is EVIL (just kidding) but it is confusing..

Yesterday what I thought I understand (see above) might be incorrect (shocking I know)

Under my deadlines and hearings there is a new update...
Doc. 2 Objection to Discharge (now has a due date of 2.20.2011) Does that mean it falls back to my original filing date of 11.12.2010?

My Status page is different it now says
Awaiting Discharge (no longer in "qoutes") Begin date 1.18.2011 Time in status 14 days

Can I twist off the cap of my Bud Select 55 to say I am in the 60 day club, please

[free2breathe]

The whole PACER tracking can be confusing. The way I understand the dates is that they include weekends and holidays in the count, however if the date falls on a holiday or weekend, the "actual" date ends up being the next business day.

[justbroke]

Did you file pro se or something? If you filed through an attorney, have your attorney explain the notations. I might also suggest that you stay out of PACER for now. A lot of "administrative" activity happens on a case after the 341 Meeting. Your 60 days is always based on your first scheduled 341 Meeting and not the date that you filed.

Generally speaking, once your 341 Meeting is over, you are on smooth sailing to day 60 and need not worry. Unless the United States Trustee (UST) him/herself has contact you or your attorney, there is nothing really to be worried about. You just wait the 60 days, as patiently as possible. A reduction to checking PACER only once a week is advisable only if you're pro se or there are some issues.

You will receive your discharge, but your case won't close until the Trustee (not UST) receives the tax refund. The Trustee may have calculated your refund differently and put that amount as a placeholder. If you filed pro se, you may want to contact the Panel Trustee's office, not the UST.

[DesdemonaB]

Just want to end the confusion

justbroke - yes I filed pro se - which might explain why I am so confused.

I was only checking Pacer cuz I knew that the UST had to file her report - as I stated on 1.31.2011 she only had 1 day to file it and I wanted to make sure she wasn't going file a POA. She made some commits that she didn't beleive I filled out the forms correctly so I was very scared that she was going to kick it completely out.

What is Pacer does not make much sense to me and it stems on the two continuations of the 341 I had.

Even the UST Interm Report has conficting dates: her report filed 2.1.2011 states a 341 meeting date of 12.22.2010 but status in Pacer puts in as 1.18.2011 - and the status clock is ticking down from that date on the status page.

I also put on a little frown when I read this... Initial Projected Date of Final Report (TFR): 11.12.2012 - anyone ever seen a two year projected date? And yes I understand the key word is projected - but two years? and under Current Projected Date of Final Report it completely blank.

I mean I hope you can understand why I am confused as none of my dates add up.

It also looks like I will have a busy weekend - my post-341 credit counseling and filing my taxes - last thing I need to do is miss any key deadline just because my 341 dates don't match.

[tcreegan]

Hi DesdemonaB,

The creditor objection deadline should be 60 days from the 1st scheduled 341, so 60 days from 12/22/2010

Holidays, weekends, business days, snow days...they all count. Deadlines are calendar days except when the deadline falls on a weekend/holiday/snow day then it is the next business day.

Trustee files statement of presumption of abuse/no presumption of abuse 707(b): 10 days after first 341
(quick thumbs up/thumbs down on the means-test)
Trustee follows it up w/ motion to dismiss/convert/presumption not appropriate: 30 days after the 10 day statement
(follow up to the quick thumbs up/down)

Creditor objection to an exemption: 30 days after the conclusion of the 341 (last continued)
Trustee objection to an exemption: 1yr after the case closes.

Financial management class certificate filed: 60 days after first scheduled 341

Trustee/UST motion to dismiss under 707(b), 704(b), : 60 days after first scheduled 341 unless they request an extension
(dismiss for any reason, high DMI, bad faith, fraud, etc)

And trustees can file to reopen cases if evidence of fraud is found.

Well, what a mess! There are 2 deadlines for trustee objection; one in BK code the other in Fed BK Rules.

Tom in Colo

[DesdemonaB]

Hi Tom
Thanks for the easy to understand deadline for dummies and putting it in a clear/kind verabage - but I believe my UST needs a refreasher course. What is posted in Pacer and what she entered on her interm report conficts with you are stating.

Hi DesdemonaB,

The creditor objection deadline should be 60 days from the 1st scheduled 341, so 60 days from 12/22/2010 - so if this is correct that would be 2/22/2011 - on my notice of CH7 BK case, Meeting of Creditors & Deadline it states deadline to file a complaint objecting to discharge of the debtor or to determine dischargebility of certain debts 2/20/11 - close enough - This date is still correct in Pacer.
Holidays, weekends, business days, snow days...they all count. Deadlines are calendar days except when the deadline falls on a weekend/holiday/snow day then it is the next business day.

Trustee files statement of presumption of abuse/no presumption of abuse 707(b): 10 days after first 341 (quick thumbs up/thumbs down on the means-test) - if my UST followed the timeline I should have seen a POA/N POA statement filed in Pacer on or before 1/1/2011 - seeing that is both a holiday and weekend last date to file/post would have been 1/3/2011 - never happen - on 12/23/2010 there was filing/posting stating 341 continuation scheduled on 12/30/2010 - then again the next filing/posting was 12/30/2010 stating 341 continuation on 1/12/2011 - on 1/18/2011 filed/posted was Trustee's Initial Report & First Meeting Held 1/12/2011. As far as I see she changed my 341 date from 12/22/2010 to 1/12/2011 - But Pacer is using 1/18/2011 as my count down to discharge.


Trustee follows it up w/ motion to dismiss/convert/presumption not appropriate: 30 days after the 10 day statement - so if she follows this the date should be 2/18/2011(follow up to the quick thumbs up/down)

Creditor objection to an exemption: 30 days after the conclusion of the 341 (last continued) - this would be now 2/12/2011

Trustee objection to an exemption: 1yr after the case closes.

Financial management class certificate filed: 60 days after first scheduled 341 - should be 2/22/2011 - going to get done this weekend and filed next early next week to be safe.

Trustee/UST motion to dismiss under 707(b), 704(b), : 60 days after first scheduled 341 unless they request an extension - if this true then that date would be 2/22/2011 - but according to Pacer my 341 date is 1/18/2011 making it 3/18/2011

(dismiss for any reason, high DMI, bad faith, fraud, etc)

And trustees can file to reopen cases if evidence of fraud is found.

Well, what a mess! There are 2 deadlines for trustee objection; one in BK code the other in Fed BK Rules.

Tom in Colo

Bottom line - drew the luck of having a UST who does not respect pro se filers, my 341 should have been done 12.30.2010 - she just made me come back on 1.12.2011 because she wanted to see the title to my van, she asked for paystubs, bank statements and wanted the writ of release of a garnishment - asked if I could mail them - nope - got there on 1.12.2011 I was listed as second to go infront of her - she made me and one other pro se wait - she allowed a lawyer to wait for his client (lawyer couldn't even get him on the phone) and she allowed a client to wait for lawyer to arrive and heard their cases before she would even call us. She wanted all this paperwork - asked for the title - took one glance and handed it back. Never asked for anything else asked her standard questions and sent me on my way - even her interm report has a date of 1.19.2011 but she didn't file it till 2.1.2011 - on the tenth day.

I assume the filing of a interm report means she found no POA - but did find that the only asset for distribution is my 2010 tax refund(s) - both federal and state. If I can get those filed and over to the trustee panel I hope to discharge and hopefully close by the end of March. Then I can start to rebuild my life.

Thanks for everyone for all the help - this isn't an easy process and like in my case my dates don't match standard deadlines - hence the confusion.