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    Renting month-to-month question

    I just read a number of threads about a Landlord finding out, or not, about a BK filing. The responses were somewhat conflicting so here's the position I'm in with this situation. Looking for any helpful advice to do this correctly...

    I am renting an apartment. My one year lease expired two years ago and I have been renting month-to-month ever since. I have never been late, have a good relationship with the owner, and of course have a security deposit in place (I did include the security deposit on Schedule B and C)

    Since I have never been late on my payments and plan on staying for awhile is there any reason to include the landlord's information in my filing, specifically Schedule G and the matrix?

    Thanks in advance for all input...

    #2
    Yes, you should include them. You should also list them on the Statement of Intentions that you're assuming the lease. The lease automatically renews each month, by a month, everytime you pay on time. So you have an unexpired lease / executory contract. Whether you should list them in the Mailing Matrix is a separate question. I didn't list mine on the Matrix but did serve the Statement of Intentions and the Motion to Reject Lease to them -- albeit mine was a rejection.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


      #3
      Hi HRoark,

      justbroke has the technical details, I just wanted to say I would talk to the landlord about it. Let them know that whatever arrives in the mail you will be staying on and paying the rent on time each month just like you do now.

      You know the old saying...an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure

      Tom in Colo
      Ch7 filed 5/12/2010.....341 meeting 6/30/2010....report of no distribution 8/15/2010.....discharged 10/01/2010.....closed 11/09/2010

      Comment


        #4
        tcreegan, very good addition. I did the same with my landlord. Forewarned him about paperwork with the title "UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT" and very official looking language that would be coming. I told him that I had to move back into one of my properties. He was also a multi-property owner and said he understood. (He later gave me a positive reference too!)

        By forewarning the landlord, you can keep a good relationship... especially if you're not rejecting the lease.
        Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
        Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
        Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


        I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks for your input Tom and justbroke. I really really do not want to share this BK filing news with my landlord. If I DO NOT include him on the Mailing Matrix then what could possibly be mailed to him from the BK court? Does he get something mailed to him automatically if I add him to the Schedule G and Statement of Limitations??
          I also just found this thread below talking about this same issue. The response said to not worry about including a month-to-month lease on Schedule G and the MML. What are your thoughts about this? Is it possible to go this route? And by going this route what could be the repercussions if any??

          http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...the-schedule-G

          Comment


            #6
            It's really just a question of what you're doing. I didn't list my landlord on the Matrix. The argument goes both ways, but if you were rejecting the lease, you would definitely serve the Statement of Intentions on the landlord. Whether to include them on the Mailing Matrix is a matter of practice.

            I have no real issue with excluding a month-to-month lease that you are "assuming" from the Mailing Matrix.
            Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
            Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
            Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


            I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by justbroke View Post
              It's really just a question of what you're doing. I didn't list my landlord on the Matrix. The argument goes both ways, but if you were rejecting the lease, you would definitely serve the Statement of Intentions on the landlord. Whether to include them on the Mailing Matrix is a matter of practice.

              I have no real issue with excluding a month-to-month lease that you are "assuming" from the Mailing Matrix.

              justbroke, That's good to know you left your landlord off the Matrix. I will do the same. And no I am not rejecting the lease and will continue paying rent month-to-month and on time. So that would also mean it is NOT necessary to include him on the Statue of Intentions if I am not rejecting the lease??
              Another quick question: By not adding the landlord to the Matrix is there ANYTHING that he could recieve in the mail from the BK court???

              In a perfect world, my goal is to not bring any attention of the BK filing to my landlord, not tell him anything upfront, keep paying my rent on time, and having the landlord receive ZERO information through the mail about my situation.

              Continued thanks all for your input...

              Comment


                #8
                You have to include it on the Statement of Intentions as assume. Otherwise, a lease is automatically rejected if not listed, 45 days from filing! If the landlord got wind of your filing, somehow, then he could move to evict you.
                Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Renting is tiresome job to do. One has to spend time & money when looking out for a good place to live. And when you find one then comes the lease guarantee. You have to hold a strong credit history to get your renting process without it. If you don't then there are leasing guarantee companies in market helping with this.


                  Comment


                    #10
                    HRoark - I did not include my landlord in my matrix and he DID receive notice of my filing!
                    Filed Ch 7 Pro Se 11-18-2010 341 Meeting 12-16-2010 Discharged 2-15-2011
                    New Job 7-2011

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I also did not include my landlord in the matrix, but as said above, he did receive notice of the filing because of the statement of intention. You HAVE to include him on the statement of intention or as justbroke says, the lease will no longer be valid, if the landlord wants to do anything about it.

                      So far, he has received the notice of filing and the presumption of abuse statement, but nothing else. There's no reason for him to have received other notices and motions. I assume he will also receive a notice of dismissal or discharge, depending on the outcome of my extremely messed up case.

                      I agree that you should just talk to them first, assure them that you are going to stay.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hmm. If the lease expired and the tenant is now on month-to-month is there technically a lease at all anymore? Sometimes a lease will have no continuation provision and the state laws take over and declare that in that situation it automatically becomes a month-to-month tenancy.
                        Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer nor giving legal advice. Use at your own risk.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I agree though that if there is no language, then State laws or even county/municipality laws take over, and what you have is an expired lease which doesn't require you to put anything in the Statement of Intentions.

                          In most cases, the lease isn't expired because the language in the lease will indicate that the lease automatically "renews" on a month-to-month basis. That's what I'd call a well-written lease.
                          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thank you bobmartins69, chicagoannie, dontburnthep, justbroke, debtprison!! Excellent input!
                            I now know that "THE" BK conservation with my landlord is inevitable. Found some peace with it and will do the deed this week. It's not something I want to share with him but I have no choice...there's worst situations I could be in.
                            Thanks again

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by debtprison View Post
                              Hmm. If the lease expired and the tenant is now on month-to-month is there technically a lease at all anymore? Sometimes a lease will have no continuation provision and the state laws take over and declare that in that situation it automatically becomes a month-to-month tenancy.
                              My situation is a little odd because I have been living in the same place for more than ten years. I went back and looked at the orginal paperwork and there is NO provision in the orginal lease for it to continue on a month-to-month basis after the first year. We just did it. However, the the apartment building has changed ownership several times since I started renting here. One of the letters I got from one of the new owners specically says, "your current lease will remain in force until further notice".

                              I think my position is that I don't have a lease and I don't have to report it.
                              Filed Chapter 7 non-consumer as a pro se. *Discharged* October 2011.

                              Comment

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