Adversary proceedings vs. Brother for $50K?

[justbroke]

Every time I read, here, about family fighting during a bankruptcy, it gives me pause. Besides the pause, it usually doesn't work out for the person who didn't file bankruptcy no matter how much griping and turmoil they bring to the proceedings. All they do is delay the inevitable... a discharge of the debt.

The question is, it worth tens of thousands of dollars to pursue the $50K? I let $50K go in a deal with my now deceased brother and never bothered the Estate either. It's just not "worth" it to me.

[shark66]

Maybe for you. I have family members that I don't really have a relationship with at all by my choice (snip). There's no hatred. No "If only" about it. I simply accept that the bridges have been burned and there is no turning back. And I have no regrets at all. Silence can be golden, as well.

Agreed 1000%. Being a "relative by blood" doesn't give one a license to defraud their next of kin, or anyone else...

Several bridges burned, never looked back and am at complete peace with myself regarding the road I had chosen.

Silence is priceless.

My $0.02 only...

Good luck.

[helpmeout]

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it.

I WAS doing the forgive/forget thing when I thought he was losing the property in the BK, but then I downloaded a PDF of the filing from the BK court two days ago and found that he's KEEPING the property... So now I'm mad.

I also discovered that he has liens (mechanic, about $65K) on the property that he didn't disclose as assets on the filing. I'm considering an asset search to see if there is more hidden stuff. Anyone have a search company in mind? I found howtoinvestigate.com and may use that one.

If I were to inform the court of any undisclosed assets, would the BK fall through? I may be able to put a lien on the property then. Of course, then he might just foreclose on it, and I'd be out the money again... unless the court wipes out his liens and I'd be in a higher position.

PS. I know this sounds awkward because brothers are involved. However I'm trying to be very realistic about my options.

If he is committing BK fraud, he is stupid. Because not only could he go to prison for doing so, he will never be able to discharge the debt. And if you can find the hidden assets, you better believe the Trustee can find it.

[helpmeout]

+1 on Des's post.

Life is too short to harbor hatred and resentment towards anyone let alone a family member. Take it from someone who knows & has been there, all the "If only I'd..." and "I shouldnt of..." will haunt you until the day you leave this earth should something happen to the person you're harboring it all for. You cannot turn back time once that person is gone.

Forgiveness is golden - not silence.....

Maybe for you. I have family members that I don't really have a relationship with at all by my choice (my father is one of them, I couldn't tell you if he was dead or alive). There's no hatred. No "If only" about it. I simply accept that the bridges have been burned and there is no turning back. And I have no regrets at all. Silence can be golden, as well.

[helpmeout]

Someone has to make the 1st move to reconcile. Helpmeout. . . with that kind of thinking, it is no wonder why there is so much hatred in this world. What a shame.

Des.

We are not talking small dollars here. We are talking THOUSANDS of dollars. That's bridge burning. A few hundred? That could probably be forgiven.

[vulkrypse]

Thanks for all the advice, I really appreciate it.

I WAS doing the forgive/forget thing when I thought he was losing the property in the BK, but then I downloaded a PDF of the filing from the BK court two days ago and found that he's KEEPING the property... So now I'm mad.

I also discovered that he has liens (mechanic, about $65K) on the property that he didn't disclose as assets on the filing. I'm considering an asset search to see if there is more hidden stuff. Anyone have a search company in mind? I found howtoinvestigate.com and may use that one.

If I were to inform the court of any undisclosed assets, would the BK fall through? I may be able to put a lien on the property then. Of course, then he might just foreclose on it, and I'd be out the money again... unless the court wipes out his liens and I'd be in a higher position.

PS. I know this sounds awkward because brothers are involved. However I'm trying to be very realistic about my options.

[SunshineGal]

Just wanted to point out that as an "unesecured creditor" your brother HAD to list you on the schedules. I would imagine his attorney has advised against reaffirming as it's just not in his best interest. Now, with that said, there is nothing in the code that says you can't re-pay a relative after the fact. Maybe your brother will come around later and do the right thing. Best of luck and hope it all works itself out.

SG

[Pandora]

+1 on Des's post.

Life is too short to harbor hatred and resentment towards anyone let alone a family member. Take it from someone who knows & has been there, all the "If only I'd..." and "I shouldnt of..." will haunt you until the day you leave this earth should something happen to the person you're harboring it all for. You cannot turn back time once that person is gone.

Forgiveness is golden - not silence.....

[despritfreya]

As opposed to what he is doing to his sibling? What he is doing is burning bridges, as well.

Someone has to make the 1st move to reconcile. Helpmeout. . . with that kind of thinking, it is no wonder why there is so much hatred in this world. What a shame.

Des.

[helpmeout]

He used my $50K loan to buy a property. He's keeping the property & mortgage & servicing the debt, but writing off my $50K in a BK7. Deadline to object is 4/4/11. I have copies of high dollar checks I wrote to pay mortgage, bills & the lawyers, and tons of emails between us & property management company about attempts to sell the place, filing lawsuits, etc. that shows me as a (very) interested person.

So even though he never put me on title (despite my repeated requests) and my $50K is not "secured" by the property, do I still have a shot at exempting my loan?

Also, he put $35K in the filing. Can I sue him after the BK for the remaining $15K?
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No, you don't. It's a dischargeable debt. You can't even approach him about paying you back after the BK (or now) as that would be a violation of the stay. And he would be able to get even more money from you. You can send reaffirmation paperwork to his BK attorney and see if he will sign it. But you can't make him.

[helpmeout]

If your brother fraudulently induced you into loaning the money maybe you have a 523 claim, however, you better be ready to put up some big bucks to hiring an attorney to prosecute the claim. Doing it on your own is generally a mistake. Further, depending upon your sophistication, if you loaned the money without taking steps to secure the loan with collateral, you are nothing more than a general unsecured creditor and his pre filing "promises" to pay you means nothing. Folks promise to pay their creditors all the time.

The reality here, and, admittedly I am putting in my personal opinion: He is your brother. Going down the path of suing him is a big mistake - one, that at some point down the road, when you need your family the most (major illness or tragedy), you will regret - big time.

Des.

As opposed to what he is doing to his sibling? What he is doing is burning bridges, as well.

[frogger]

You don't stand a chance in the world........

You should have had your name on the title to the property and a lien that was recorded (perfected) within 30 days of the original transaction. Sorry to tell you, but you're screwed.

[despritfreya]

If your brother fraudulently induced you into loaning the money maybe you have a 523 claim, however, you better be ready to put up some big bucks to hiring an attorney to prosecute the claim. Doing it on your own is generally a mistake. Further, depending upon your sophistication, if you loaned the money without taking steps to secure the loan with collateral, you are nothing more than a general unsecured creditor and his pre filing "promises" to pay you means nothing. Folks promise to pay their creditors all the time.

The reality here, and, admittedly I am putting in my personal opinion: He is your brother. Going down the path of suing him is a big mistake - one, that at some point down the road, when you need your family the most (major illness or tragedy), you will regret - big time.

Des.

[vulkrypse]

that was my mistake... should've done it. Unfortunately it's too late & I have to go through BK judge.

[tcreegan]

Hi vulkrypse,

Just a shot in the dark here....put a lien on the property?

Sorry, not much help here...

Tom in Colo