Divorce in order to qualify for a Ch7...?

[klsteve]

Im in sort of the same boat. I make a decent income (100K) and wife stays at home. Looking at having to file a CH 13 if we are together and having to deal with that stress for 5 more years. I think we have decided to get divorced and I will pay her a good portion of my income in child support and alimony which makes us both eligible to file a chapter 7 if she keeps the kids. Although, things are pretty bad, I'd rather give her the money for her and the kids than creditors. Totally sucky situation, has caused me so much stress that it has effected my health and ruined my marriage and family. Does anyone else find that the living allowances for Chapter 13 are ridiculous?

[AngelinaCat]

Welcome to the forum. I moved your post into a thread of its own where it can be more readily seen and responded to. You had tacked your question onto the end of an old thread, and it would get lost.

I hope that in reading and posting here, you and your wife will find a way to make your marriage work out over the long-haul.

Good luck to you both!

[AngelinaCatHub]

I once went to a premarriage course (a Church requirement) and learned that M O N E Y is the major cause for divorce, not infidelity as many thought. I'm so sad that you have to come to this. However, as you described, if you divorce, and clean this mess up, is there the possibility that after a C7 and "new start" for both, would you consider a reconciliation and a remarry??

Normally I would advise against this as in one of our lawsuits that help ruin us, our crummy lawyer said to "strategically" divorce. Very bad for our pride and all since we were not divorce material. After a while, we cancelled the proceedings.

Best to you folks and welcome to the Forum. You have help here for sure. 'Hub

[momofthree]

I personally find the living allowances for a ch.13 to be quite liberal. We are living much better now than we did prior to filing when we were juggling all our debt. Chances are that if you think the living allowances are "ridiculous" then you are living well beyond your means and it's time to scale back and take a hard look at wants vs. needs.

[GHG7F0]

I'm in the same situation and I have considered separating as we are having marriage problems anyway. I even filed separation last October, but so far I can't go through with it, it doesn't feel right. I should have filed last year when I actually did qualify. Now I live in the world of stress.

[AngelinaCat]

As the 'other half' of the 'strategic divorce' that 'Hub alluded to, I can say that I would never, ever, recommend such a course. I was the one that had to initiate the proceedings that the lawyer wanted. Even though this was supposed to be 'strategic' and not a 'real' divorce, starting it and filing the paperwork was just as painful as a REAL divorce, and it DID drive a bit of wedge in 'HUb's and my relationship. After about a month I called the clerk of court and canceled the proceedings--and could barely talk through my tears.

Don't ever consider a divorce unless you are absolutely sure that this IS what you both want.

Good luck.

[Clabbergirl]

Sorry to hear you're having marriage issues, but be careful how you word things in the divorce decree if it comes to that. Marital debt becomes a problem legally if only one of you files and not both. If the decree states you will take some of the debt and she will also...and either of you fails to pay it (as you would in a Chapter 7), the other spouse can sue you for contempt of a court order or damages in the event they have to pay the debts you said you'd pay in the decree. Of course, if both of you file, there's no issue. But just be careful about that. Even the most amicable of divorces can get rough when push comes to shove.

[murphsmom]

Weigh out the cost of the divorce vs. what you are trying to save. It's not cheap to get a divorce. If you think the divorce would "stick", and you are paying her a "larger than required" amount for child support/alimony in order to save some from creditors, you just may get stuck with that larger than normal payment for a very long time if you don't reconcile.

[dbr]

I have to agee with most, divorce is the last thing you would want to consider, but, once into the chapter 13 it is a nightmare to consider. The issue we have is that we make good money, $125k, but once into the 13, they take $2,700 per month, all expenses (not realistic) are based on the six month average. I have several posts concerning our situation. Once the income average is figured, you are paying your expenses and 13 payment based on a (higher) income figure that does not include the same income every month. So, you are expected to pay a higher 13 payment based on your income and pay expenses that are based on an extra check you get twice a year. Basically you start behind the 8 ball and in our case we stay behind the 8 ball due to several things, flooded basment, daughter in college, car repairs, less overtime you name it we have suffered from it.

I spoke to an attorney who explained that if you divorce before the bk, it goes much smoother, with much lower payments. Also have to aree with Angelia and murphs mom, strategic divorce can go south, and then you have a whole new stress to deal with.

We wll know in a week or two if we will divorce, hope it's not forever but this is no way to live either. The court gets to tell me I can't afford mulch, gas @ $200 per month for three vehicles (whatever), food $1,000 pr month for six people (including shool lunches come on), clothes @ $50.00 per month for six people yea right.

Mom of three must have a secret to surviving a 13 and finding the expenses alowed quite liberal, we have four daughters, have never lived beyond our means and we do with out many things. I would like to be able to fill my car wth gas instead of half a tank and sweat till payday just once. I would also like to have a pizza once in a while, no cando....

Divorce might be the only way for my familyto survive (together), if we have one more disaster or have to replace an appliance, we can't do it soley because we have no money. Ahhh I feel better does'nt everyone?

[momofthree]

I have to agee with most, divorce is the last thing you would want to consider, but, once into the chapter 13 it is a nightmare to consider. The issue we have is that we make good money, $125k, but once into the 13, they take $2,700 per month, all expenses (not realistic) are based on the six month average. I have several posts concerning our situation. Once the income average is figured, you are paying your expenses and 13 payment based on a (higher) income figure that does not include the same income every month. So, you are expected to pay a higher 13 payment based on your income and pay expenses that are based on an extra check you get twice a year. Basically you start behind the 8 ball and in our case we stay behind the 8 ball due to several things, flooded basment, daughter in college, car repairs, less overtime you name it we have suffered from it.

I spoke to an attorney who explained that if you divorce before the bk, it goes much smoother, with much lower payments. Also have to aree with Angelia and murphs mom, strategic divorce can go south, and then you have a whole new stress to deal with.

We wll know in a week or two if we will divorce, hope it's not forever but this is no way to live either. The court gets to tell me I can't afford mulch, gas @ $200 per month for three vehicles (whatever), food $1,000 pr month for six people (including shool lunches come on), clothes @ $50.00 per month for six people yea right.

Mom of three must have a secret to surviving a 13 and finding the expenses alowed quite liberal, we have four daughters, have never lived beyond our means and we do with out many things. I would like to be able to fill my car wth gas instead of half a tank and sweat till payday just once. I would also like to have a pizza once in a while, no cando....

Divorce might be the only way for my familyto survive (together), if we have one more disaster or have to replace an appliance, we can't do it soley because we have no money. Ahhh I feel better does'nt everyone?

I'm not sure where you're getting these figures. They are not even close to IRS standards. You can view the IRS standards here:

http://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20110315/meanstesting.htm

Clothing allowance alone for 6 people is $366 a month.
Transportation costs are more than double what you have listed and if you can prove the expense, you can claim higher. We claimed $575/mo for gas for our car and it wasn't even questioned--that was on top of insurance.
Food you listed is about on par at $1000/mo. and TOTALLY do-able, you just have to learn to shop sales, use coupons, cook from scratch, etc.
You can claim IRS standard medical expenses at $60 per person per month which is $360/mo.

You'd be surprised at all the expenses you are allowed to claim. The numbers you've listed are not at all accurate. Ch.13 is not punitive. It's quite liveable, but there is a learning curve when you are first starting to live within your means. If the numbers you posted are figures an attorney quoted you, then you need to find a new attorney ASAP--one that specializes in ch.13 and will fight for you.

[AngelinaCat]

Mom, dbr has admitted elsewhere that he is a victim of a bankruptcy mill, and yes, he has got to do something about getting another attorney.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Sorry to hear you're having marriage issues, but be careful how you word things in the divorce decree if it comes to that. Marital debt becomes a problem legally if only one of you files and not both. If the decree states you will take some of the debt and she will also...and either of you fails to pay it (as you would in a Chapter 7), the other spouse can sue you for contempt of a court order or damages in the event they have to pay the debts you said you'd pay in the decree. Of course, if both of you file, there's no issue. But just be careful about that. Even the most amicable of divorces can get rough when push comes to shove.

VERY good advice if in the event divorce is not avoidable. 'Hub

[momofthree]

Mom, dbr has admitted elsewhere that he is a victim of a bankruptcy mill, and yes, he has got to do something about getting another attorney.

Ah, that makes more sense.

I'd hate for anyone reading dbr's post to think that those are standard ch.13 limits. Sounds like it's just a classic case of you get what you pay for, and when it comes down to a ch.13 you definitely don't want to go with a bk mill.

Dbr, I hope you can find a new attorney who will get you into a liveable plan. Good luck to you.

[Clabbergirl]

If you're going to get a divorce, get one before you file, period. If you aren't sure, can you wait a bit on filing BK until you're sure?

[dbr]

I am quoting what our attorney filled out on the schedule J. I know and I agree with you, but for what ever reason, we were not alowed the same allowance, that is why I keep complaining. That is why we have met with the attorney and expland our living expense they have are not realistic.
I swear these are the numbers we are suppose to live on. That is why I keep posting about a divorce, if our payments are not brought into line with our real expenses we will divorce...............period. We cannot survive on the amount they have left us. I do not understand what the problem is. One of us will have to file a chapter 7 after we divorce, with these numbers it is more than punitive. I wouild rather spend six months in jail than complete the ch 13. I keep telling my wife, the definition of insanity is completing the same task over and over and execting different results. That is my situation, my payments for the ch 13 are almost the same as before we filed. It is insane.