HELP! Find the best way2 handle Chapter 7

[chiwawa]

One small thing you might want to do for a while to help with the impending creditor calls you expect, is to research and setup Google Voice. Its free and it can make a huge difference in dealing with the phone calls. Everything is routed through your main phone (but they dial/have a google voice number which you give them when you update or change your profile with them beforehand) and dumped into a nice neat tidy space on your computer. You can listen to them if you feel the need, you can just read them and tuck them away. But it makes it so you can tolerate this process a little easier. Good Luck to you.

Mountanddo, well done!

[LadyInTheRed]

LadyInTheRed, gave me some expert information, suggestions and advice that is clearly opened up the best options for me at this juncture.

JOBK, I am not an expert in bankruptcy. I am a paralegal who works in a different area of the law. Even in that area of law where I have been working for over 10 years, I am not qualified to give legal advice unless I give it under the direct supervision of an attorney. What I know about bankruptcy I've learned from this board, my own research and my own experience. My suggestion that filing now could be premature is based on what I have learned on this board. Please do not take anything you read here as expert advice. Think of it as suggestions from friends who have been in your situation or have other friends in your situation. Even the BK attorneys who post on this board do not have all of your details. The only expert advice you should rely on is the advice of an experienced bankruptcy attorney who has reviewed your situation. This board is an excellent way to get different perspectives on your situation that can help in discussions with attorneys when you go for free consultations.

LadyInTheRed your input and suggestions are always so eloquent, succinct, clearly to the point combined with wit and curtness but in a very good way! I love it!!! Are you someone I know? Who's got an IQ of more than anyone I know of and has a counseling practice as well ?!

Awww shucks. Thanks. I actually don't think I'd make a very good counselor. I like to help people, but tend to be heavy on the curtness, especially in person where I don't have an opportunity to read something and edit it before letting it out into the world. I'm good at looking at a situation and finding logical solutions, but not so good at providing emotional support.

[dman]

The main points have already been answered, so forgive me for not going over them again.

#1. You are bankrupt. Period. No question about it. HOWEVER, just because you are bankrupt, does not mean you must file for bankruptcy. People will argue all day about whether you should or not. Heck, I'm joining in, so I'm one of them I guess

Would it be better to file now, or to wait? Well, you have a medical condition which you are currently getting treatment for. Is this something you expect to have major bills from? Do you have no insurance? Or perhaps you do have insurance which is footing the bill. Now, there's no way to know for certain what will happen in the future. BUT, what are the odds that you'll have unpayable medical bills when all this is done? If it's likely you'll be left with tens of thousands (or more) in bills, I'd definitely wait to file. But if you have insurance which will likely cover everything, and the likelihood of being left with a huge mountain of medical debt is low, I'd go ahead and file now.

Also, stress can/does wreak havoc on one's health. Bankruptcy is very stressful, but only for a short period of time (generally, 90 or so days from filing and you're done). Perhaps filing now, and getting rid of this cloud hanging over you, is the best thing to do from a medical (not necessarily financial) standpoint.

Let's say you decide that the chance of having a big medical bill at the end of your treatment is too high for your comfort, so you decide to put off bankruptcy. How can you keep from stressing out in the meantime? Well, I'd check out the sticky in the Collections section titled "12-step plan to deal with collectors and keep your sanity!". Highly recommended, and I'm not at all biased (well, other than writing the thing). Here's the link: http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.ph...ep-your-sanity! . Spend some time in that section, the bankruptcy section(s), and others as you have time. Come up with a game plan to deal with the collectors that is as stress-free (and conducive to your recovery) as possible.

Good luck!

[Drazil65]

One small thing you might want to do for a while to help with the impending creditor calls you expect, is to research and setup Google Voice. Its free and it can make a huge difference in dealing with the phone calls. Everything is routed through your main phone (but they dial/have a google voice number which you give them when you update or change your profile with them beforehand) and dumped into a nice neat tidy space on your computer. You can listen to them if you feel the need, you can just read them and tuck them away. But it makes it so you can tolerate this process a little easier. Good Luck to you.

[mountanddo]

18k is way to low to file BK. I have over 60K in CC debt and minor medical debt. A BK in my current situation would not give me a fresh start. You need to trust your instinct and decide accordingly.

A blanket statement like this is misleading. Debt is debt. I have 20k in debt. You have to assess the entire situation before you judge that 18k is too low to file BK. For me, I was looking at a garnishment of $550 a month and that was just one creditor. The others were not far behind. Interest and penalties would of still been charged on the accounts. If all my creditors got a default judgement I would be paying this for a minimum of 3 years. Filing Chapter 13 has allowed me to have a payment of $100 a month for 36 months and then I'm done. I don't live in a state that won't garnish wages or seize bank accounts not to mention that having to "dodge" creditors and look over my shoulder is stress that I really don't have to have. Instinct has nothing to do with it. If I didn't file I would not be able to even pay my basic living expenses. People that make $5/hour vs. $30/hour have a whole different thresh hold of what is the appropriate amount to file BK.

[jacko]

18k is way to low to file BK. I have over 60K in CC debt and minor medical debt. A BK in my current situation would not give me a fresh start. You need to trust your instinct and decide accordingly.

Thank you for your input HHM! Well, there's a lot of reasons why I don't file BK right now: No money to pay for lawyer fees ($3K minimum?) I don't have much of a debt at the moment ($18K too low?)
I would like to have a chance to pay these off in the future (2 years from my timeline now?) And, I really don't like to file another BK in my name (unless to protect my family?)

I agree with you all heartedly about the work involved about dodging the creditors in the future; the fact that my credit life will be shut and the impending judgments that may occur in the future! That's a lot to handle? But with my reasons above, what can I do at this point? Is there a third option perhaps, anyone???

For the moment I'd like to take care of my health issues first, then be able to get back some peace of mind and eventually have the opportunity to rebuild in the future! Thanks again for your time and if there's anything you would like to add – I'm All Ears... Have a nice day and God bless you!

[JOBK]

My post wasn't advice, it was an observation, the perfectionists (OCD'rs) have the toughest time making decisions in general, and certainly when it comes to BK, overload themselves with information (usually misinformation) that delay's the inevitable. So, if you really are an OCD perfectionist, there is nothing anyone here can say, your personality is such that you simply won't take action until you are at the very bottom (and even then, you may not do it out of fear of change).
You cannot play the "if only" or "what if" game forever. Even the medical bill excuse is questionable, but that is a call that needs to be made by facts on the ground. I have seen perfectly healthy individuals delay filing because of that objection (what if I get sick). But, if you are CURRENTLY undergoing treatment and you KNOW the treatment has some time to go, that is different, then you probably need to delay if you can. But if the medical bill risk is hypothetical, then don't delay.
As ladyinred points out, don't delay because you think you can actually avoid BK. That is simply an irrational position (there is a similar thread going on, where the OP somehow things that letting judgments pile up, waiting out the 10 years to judgment expiration is somehow a better alternative), the cure, bankruptcy, is in no way worse than the disease

What, no, quotes “?” But an (AUTO-LABEL) instead! Cool, jk! Like, I said, “I agree 100% but I have so many things I must do” and decide, since there is no dead-line for filing BK -- I have the time to crunch the numbers literally, especially that is all I have at the moment (no asseets!) This goes down to the old saying, “You can have good, fast, or cheap. Pick two of them” But to put and add the missing link called “perfection” is just impossible in any way but it is doable, when you have the time and make that time. Fear of anything has nothing to do with it, especially with the help of all of YOU – I have nothing to fear NOW but fear itself … oops was that a quote : )

Everything is questionable right now, I got a call this week that I was rescheduled for a new doctor's appointment January 11, 2012. So, the treatment is a GO again I hope – God willing! So, more than likely the BK stuff will be delayed basically, the late fees and other chargers will be doubled/tripled charge in the next 3 months and then the dreaded collectors agency will start hounding me. Do you think by contacting my creditors would help me any or would that just speed up their decisions to put me up for collection?

Yes, of course I wouldn't delay or avoid BK and that is why I am here on this site to get the ins and out of BK filing, and I also do not want to file prematurely without all the specifics. Even looking at filing for myself since you know I can't afford to but the specifics and the tedious tasks is quite a handful for me. LadyInTheRed, gave me some expert information, suggestions and advice that is clearly opened up the best options for me at this juncture.

How about you -- do you have any advice for me? Since all the input you've given me so far are all observations only?! At any rate, I really really appreciate your time, all your input and opinions!!!

"For all who exalt themselves will be HUMBLED, and those who HUMBLE themselves will be exalted (Meticulous one!" Thank you so much and I hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving!!!

[HHM]

My post wasn't advice, it was an observation, the perfectionists (OCD'rs) have the toughest time making decisions in general, and certainly when it comes to BK, overload themselves with information (usually misinformation) that delay's the inevitable. So, if you really are an OCD perfectionist, there is nothing anyone here can say, your personality is such that you simply won't take action until you are at the very bottom (and even then, you may not do it out of fear of change).

You cannot play the "if only" or "what if" game forever. Even the medical bill excuse is questionable, but that is a call that needs to be made by facts on the ground. I have seen perfectly healthy individuals delay filing because of that objection (what if I get sick). But, if you are CURRENTLY undergoing treatment and you KNOW the treatment has some time to go, that is different, then you probably need to delay if you can. But if the medical bill risk is hypothetical, then don't delay.

As ladyinred points out, don't delay because you think you can actually avoid BK. That is simply an irrational position (there is a similar thread going on, where the OP somehow things that letting judgments pile up, waiting out the 10 years to judgment expiration is somehow a better alternative), the cure, bankruptcy, is in no way worse than the disease

[JOBK]

I agree with everything HHM says, except for her opinion that you should file now. You have no assets or income to protect and will continue to incur medical expenses you have no way of paying.
I wouldn't say one of us is right and one is wrong. It's just different ways of approaching the situation. If you are definitely going to file eventually, the fact that credit card debt will multiply while you delay is irrelevant. It is true that your fresh start will be delayed if you delay filing and that in the mean time you will be hounded by creditors who may get judgements. Does the stress of prolonging the situation and having the negative credit history follow you for longer into the future outweigh the risk of incurring more debt after your discharge without a way to pay it? If so, HHM's approach may be a better one for you. This is a call only you can make. I highly recommend you discuss your situation with several experienced BK attorneys and get their perspectives. Their opinions will probably differ as well.
But, don't delay filing because you think you are going to figure out a way to pay off your debt and avoid BK. You have no income or assets with which pay your debt. $18k debt to you is as big a deal as $180k debt is to somebody else. You are bankrupt NOW. The sooner you accept that fact and make a decision on how to proceed, the better off you are. There are many members of this board who spent a year or 2 trying to avoid BK and later regretted it. The point in delaying filing is not hope that you will some how avoid BK.
If you had $3,000 now and used it to try to avoid BK when you have no certainty that your situation will improve in the foreseeable future, you would be throwing away $3,000. Based on what you've said about the expected length of your treatment, you would still be in the same situation 7 months later, but without $3,000 to pay for an expensive lawyer (yes, $3K is high). Once you know you need to file, whether it will be in 2 months or 2 years, you need to stop paying all unsecured debt and save that money for attorney fees. Spending your last remaining cash on minimum payments would be throwing money away and prolonging the inevitable.
But, you don't have $3,000 anyway. If decide you want to file now, try looking for attorneys or organizations that offer pro-bono bankruptcy filing. It's not available everywhere, but check with your local court and/or bar association to find out what is available in your area.

LadyInTheRed your input and suggestions are always so eloquent, succinct, clearly to the point combined with wit and curtness but in a very good way! I love it!!! Are you someone I know? Who's got an IQ of more than anyone I know of and has a counseling practice as well ?!

Everything you said, I agree 100% but I have so many things I must do – I am so overwhelmed and tired all the time. Sometimes I get brain-fog by all of these great advice and suggestions that I just want to just go ahead and do it. But then again, there are so much distractions and ailments all over it's hard to concentrate to do even a single task. Last Monday, I said I will start with my benefits application but no luck, I didn't even open site. Oh well...

At this time, I will just go ahead and make a list of priority and just go from there. Thank you so much for your help, kindness and understanding. Please continue to help me Lady Samaritan!!!
Could you please make a list : ) I'm in the short bus : ) I'm joking... no i'm not! : )
Happy Thanksgiving and God bless!

[JOBK]

I am confused by this advice.
Isn't the general consensus here that it makes no sense to file until you are on firmer ground vis a vis income, health insurance, etc?
This is why we are in no hurry. We will NOT be in a better position post filing at this time-- ie, no fresh start.

I agree, especially I don't know whether I will have more medical bills in the future. At the same time, I don't even have money to pay for a simple co-pay and definitely not have the money to burn for all the fees that will incur for processing the BK !? Thanks for the help again and have a wonderful Thanksgiving!

[JOBK]

How about this The risk of the wrong decision is preferable to the terror of indecision (Maimonides).
Since you claim to be a perfectionist, that is all I need to know. You won't do anything until after the --it hits the fan, regardless.

Well, another wonderful quote this time from Maimonides, thank you very much! I was just trying to get some information in regards to my problems and then gather up all these evidence before continuing to tackle my situations. Thus, in turn not taking unnecessary risk of making an erratic and faulty decision of any kind, at the same time by accumulating all these information without further stresses, I hope, in the future! I know this, by not doing anything wrong with my decisions at this time, at the end I will be cheering with joy and gladness, regardless.

Although, I must attend to one thing at a time and the “one thing” henceforth would be my health. Now, if there is anything else you would like to add but before you do please do keep in mind that my problems are not limited to financial crisis but I'm also quite ill, sick at heart and other personal issues. So, with that said, I would like to hear your input from those subjects, otherwise let the divine authorization interject now.

Your point is well taken... Thanks for your input as always and God bless you!

[LadyInTheRed]

I agree with everything HHM says, except for her opinion that you should file now. You have no assets or income to protect and will continue to incur medical expenses you have no way of paying.

I wouldn't say one of us is right and one is wrong. It's just different ways of approaching the situation. If you are definitely going to file eventually, the fact that credit card debt will multiply while you delay is irrelevant. It is true that your fresh start will be delayed if you delay filing and that in the mean time you will be hounded by creditors who may get judgements. Does the stress of prolonging the situation and having the negative credit history follow you for longer into the future outweigh the risk of incurring more debt after your discharge without a way to pay it? If so, HHM's approach may be a better one for you. This is a call only you can make. I highly recommend you discuss your situation with several experienced BK attorneys and get their perspectives. Their opinions will probably differ as well.

But, don't delay filing because you think you are going to figure out a way to pay off your debt and avoid BK. You have no income or assets with which pay your debt. $18k debt to you is as big a deal as $180k debt is to somebody else. You are bankrupt NOW. The sooner you accept that fact and make a decision on how to proceed, the better off you are. There are many members of this board who spent a year or 2 trying to avoid BK and later regretted it. The point in delaying filing is not hope that you will some how avoid BK.

... IF I have $3K now, then I can pay my minimum monthly payments for my 4 cc which is less than $400 per month, so that should last for at least 7 months and still without defaulting yet!

If you had $3,000 now and used it to try to avoid BK when you have no certainty that your situation will improve in the foreseable future, you would be throwing away $3,000. Based on what you've said about the expected length of your treatment, you would still be in the same situation 7 months later, but without $3,000 to pay for an expensive lawyer (yes, $3K is high). Once you know you need to file, whether it will be in 2 months or 2 years, you need to stop paying all unsecured debt and save that money for attorney fees. Spending your last remaining cash on minimum payments would be throwing money away and prolonging the inevitable.

But, you don't have $3,000 anyway. If decide you want to file now, try looking for attorneys or organizations that offer pro-bono bankruptcy filing. It's not available everywhere, but check with your local court and/or bar association to find out what is available in your area.

[keepsmiling]

How about this

The risk of the wrong decision is preferable to the terror of indecision (Maimonides).

Since you claim to be a perfectionist, that is all I need to know. You won't do anything until after the --it hits the fan, regardless.

I am confused by this advice.
Isn't the general consensus here that it makes no sense to file until you are on firmer ground vis a vis income, health insurance, etc?
This is why we are in no hurry. We will NOT be in a better position post filing at this time-- ie, no fresh start.

[HHM]

How about this

The risk of the wrong decision is preferable to the terror of indecision (Maimonides).

Since you claim to be a perfectionist, that is all I need to know. You won't do anything until after the --it hits the fan, regardless.

[JOBK]

huh, that makes not sense. So, you are saying that you are unwilling to save up the cost for an attorney (by the way, keep shopping around, $3K is very much on the high end), yet you will try to keep paying on the credit card even though you have no money.

Well, As Thomas Pain said

"To argue with a person who had renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead"

Well, let me explain further... IF I have $3K now, then I can pay my minimum monthly payments for my 4 cc which is less than $400 per month, so that should last for at least 7 months and still without defaulting yet! And yet, I wouldn't be needing immediate advice with my daunting challenges in life now. In addition, I gave four reasons above why I try NOT to side with BK at this time. There is no rush to file for BK especially with my pending petition for my wife with the help of my sister as joint-sponsor.

I Love your quote from Pain... But for me being the perfectionist I am... It's just too difficult to admit that ones self can be destroyed by this financial fallout without administering medical treatment first and thus reasoning being thrown out to die. I hope you do understand my situations from the beginning, I have so much going on all at once and I am just trying my best to prioritize my problems.

Still the same, I sincerely appreciate your help and input now and at any time!
Thanks again and Happy Thanksgiving!