Should I get a PO Box for privacy from debt collectors?

[cityish]

Hi, I am in a charge-off situation right now and I hope to be able to resolve it eventually with a bankruptcy.


For now, I'm concerned about being sued.


All of my creditors know my current address, which is an apartment I moved into in February.

I wish now that when I moved, I'd gotten a PO box rather than telling them my actual street address.

Is it too late? Can I go get a PO box now, change my address with the creditors again, and hope they won't figure out I'm still living in apartment?

I know this all sounds kind of crazy and paranoid and totally useless, but I'm wondering if they didn't know my street address, maybe they couldn't serve me with a summons. That's where my brain is at right now. If my idea sucks or is full of holes, please let me know what you think. Thanks!

[ThreadsSnapping]

They can send a summons via certified mail. Been there, done that!

TS

[AngelinaCatHub]

They can send a summons via certified mail. Been there, done that!

TS

Not only that, they already know where you live. In ten minutes if you were to move. I could find you. I am a tech and there is no privacy in this World anymore.

Face up and go for it. You have only relief ahead of you when you take action. Wish you best fortune. 'Hub

[AngelinaCat]

Go ahead and get the postal box. Do the change of address form. Yes, you will still be served, but as TS said, it will be by certified mail. You really don't want anyone coming to your door, although most likely the service would come via postal mail anyway. I jsut like the extra shield away from my residence, if you know what I mean.

Good luck,

[BigJohn]

The change of address form probably will not stop the collectors form still sending stuff to your apartment. What I did was applied for a loan and showed them my driver's liscense. My driver's liscense is the address of my store. Now all 3 credit reports show that my residence is the address of my store. If you do this 2 or 3 times, with each time showing a different address, your apartment address will be at the bottom of the list.

Right now, most of the creditors send mail to my store's address, a few send mail to a mailbox I had that is 2500 miles away. Almost no creditors contact my house address.

[GoingDown]

Getting a P.O. Box doesn't do any good. It just costs you a yearly fee. The post office requires you provide a street address, and if a creditor wants that address, they will give it to them.

And it's true, you want to know if someone is suing you. You can answer the lawsuit, or file BK, or make yourself as judgment proof as possible-- such as getting the money out of your checking account, etc.

[cityish]

OK thanks for the input everyone.

I live in an apartment building with card key entry, so the only way they could get in is if they call me from the lobby and I buzz them in or (more likely scenario) they just wait for one of the residents to stroll by and let them in.

There is a UPS Store across the street from my building, so I guess it would be pointless to get a box there and use them as my street address, because anyone with half a brain could figure out I was probably still living at my "former" address across the street....

I'm just so scared of getting sued eventually but I don't have the money to pay. I did a Chapter 7 bankruptcy six years ago so I can't do another one right now. I just hope I don't get sued because I feel like I don't have a lot of options.

[epiphany]

I was served at my door and I live in a security building. I figure someone let them in the gate which is not hard to believe.


You should realize that they can still sue even if they cannot locate you. They only need to show that they reasonably tried. Then they can file a paper with the court which says that you were nowhere to be found and the suit will proceed. May delay the process but will not bring it to a standstill.

It's an old wives tale that creditors actually have to hand you the summons. I have seen cases where all they had to do was file that the summons was refused (because the recipient would not take the papers) and the creditors still got the judgment.

Better to deal with your situation, whatever that is, head on instead of trying to bury your head and your address in the sand.

Good luck.

ep

[treehugger1]

In my state (Oregon) service by mail where the CA or creditor keeps a return receipt green card is accepatable service if you cannot be found by other means.

I hear a lot about don't sign for any mail that requires your signature. This is not a good idea if it is a service process. You will be responsible for a great deal of burden of proof if you fail to answer.

My philosophy... Accept your circumstance, accept all forms of US mail and deal with issues as they arise. Or, spend money to hire an attorney who will most likely cost you as much as the original debt.

No one walks away from the ramifications of NOT paying debt. You can be sued in small claims, circuit, or other courts, regardles of whether you are judgment proof.

Having said all of this, I do use a private mail box and have used this for many years. All my creditors and collection actions come to this address as it is the only one they know of. I recently moved into a furnished home and I am sure that anyone searching the DMV records can find my address. No big deal. The good thing is that I literally have no assets, including personal property that can be seized.

Receiving a summons is not even close to what I've dealt with in my lifetime. All process servers who have come to my door have been cordial.

I do expect that eventually I will be served at my place of work. All my coworkers know of my situation and are very understanding. This does not imply that they agree with my position of dealing with debt, but I would never feel embarrassed by being served at my office.

When you hit the true rock-bottom, personal issues and colleague acceptance don't even come up on the radar screen. I think most colleagues are amazed at my "don't give a sh*t" attitude. Sometimes I think they secretly wish they had the same fortitude to get their own finances in order.

So, service for lawsuits can take many forms depending upon your state. What are you willing to deal with? The truth is they will probably find you. If so, answer any calling that comes your way. Or, ignore and accept the ramifications of default judgments and garnishments. Only you know what you can deal with.

Or, if you are in a position, file a BK and blow them all off!

Just my humble opinions. TH

[AngelinaCat]

Getting a P.O. Box doesn't do any good. It just costs you a yearly fee. The post office requires you provide a street address, and if a creditor wants that address, they will give it to them.

No, they shouldn't. If they do, they are breaking the law.

Post office personnel are not allowed to give out your street address. If you have a mail box at your street address, that is another matter. But if you have a postal box in the post office, the personnel are NOT allowed to give out your physical address.

This is the same as they are not allowed to give your mail to someone else, even though you may have sent that person to pick up your mail and you forgot to give them the key to your box.

[Cali]

They can't give out your information without your consent.

And having a PO box isn't that expensive. I've always used a PO box instead of my home address.

Getting a P.O. Box doesn't do any good. It just costs you a yearly fee. The post office requires you provide a street address, and if a creditor wants that address, they will give it to them.

And it's true, you want to know if someone is suing you. You can answer the lawsuit, or file BK, or make yourself as judgment proof as possible-- such as getting the money out of your checking account, etc.

[cupcake]

No, they shouldn't. If they do, they are breaking the law.

Post office personnel are not allowed to give out your street address. If you have a mail box at your street address, that is another matter. But if you have a postal box in the post office, the personnel are NOT allowed to give out your physical address.

Actually, this is not true. If you are a named party (or witness) to a lawsuit or potential lawsuit, an attorney or process server can legally send a "Request for Change of Address or Boxholder Information Needed for Service of Legal Process" form, pursuant to 39 CFR 265.6(d)(6)(ii), to the post office to verify a current mailing address or to get a forwarding address.

[GoingDown]

Well really what you need to look at is: you need to figure out of the WORST that can possibly happen, happens. The worst is one or both of these, you get sued, they get a judgment and then either levy against your bank account (easy to avoid) or they garnish your wages.

Now I don't know the particulars of who you owe and how much or how many. But only one can garnish at a time. Now I have no idea where you live so state law will govern how much if anything can be taken in a garnishment.

I mean as far as your bank account goes, if you used that account to pay this creditor then by all means close and open a new account at a new bank. They can't levy on a bank account they don't know you have. Pick like a small credit union. Depending on what you do for a job, you can always change jobs if they find out where you work if you really need to. In other cases you may not make enough to get wages garnished or maybe you work a couple jobs and they only know about one.

A lot of this really has two points...one is the initial lawsuit...thats easy and a default judgment is easy to get if you don't know about it or fail to respond.

The second part is getting the money out of you. I am not advocating how to avoid collection of a judgment just that if: your bank account is empty and or closed they have no way of knowing where your money is or has been moved too.

If you change jobs and don't tell them, they have no way of knowing where you work unless you fill out a credit or rental application etc.

And if you own a paid off car thats another consideration to keep in mind it may have enough value for them to take it (very rare).

Its all really rather difficult to get money out of someone who knows how collectors get money from you and you stay one step ahead.

Like I said if you pay attention the worst that can happen and it would be months from now is this: wage garnishment or being called to appear in front of a judge and tell him your financial situation and thats not a bad thing!

If you really have no money and can prove it, the judge can force them to accept $20.00 a month payments at no interest or fees until its paid off. So really being sued and appearing in front of the judge can often get you a minimal payment they must accept.

On a side note, do not, I mean do not drive a car you own outright to court you can end up having to surrender the vehicle to the court at that time. Always have a friend drive you unless your not the legal owner of the car...LOL

Very good advice. Most people are much too afraid of judgments. Only people with significant assets (such as a house with lots of equity, etc.) need to fear lawsuits.

Closing your checking account is a good idea. Because they are usually not very judgment proof.

Opening a new checking account at a different bank only works if the bank does NOT run a credit check when they open a checking account for you. If they DO run a credit check, well you might as well ring the dinner bell for the creditors because it will appear as a hard pull on your credit report and the judgment creditor can then easily find which bank to garnish or seize by just looking at your credit report.

If you're going to be dealing with judgments, it is best to learn to start using nothing but cash, money orders, and pre-paid visa debit cards (such as the Wal-Mart "money card") to pay for everything. Creditors can't get a handle on this stuff. And they would know only what you tell them. If you're dumb enough to tell them that you have a lot of cash, you might get a turn over order from the court.

You don't have to appear in court for the initial lawsuit and stand before a judge to answer questions about your finances (but they will get a default judgment against you if you don't file an answer to the lawsuit and appear). That only happens after they get a judgment and then they MIGHT file a motion with the court for judment debtors exam. These are very RARE because they cost a lot of money, and most of the time they are only done with debtors who have a lot of assets they are hiding from the creditors.

From what I've heard, it is best to NEVER agree to make any payments whatsoever in front of a judge, because then if you fail make those payments, it might be considered to be contempt of court. It is best to tell the judge that you just don't have enough money to make any payments at all. If you're using nothing but cash, it would difficult for them to prove otherwise. And no, they're not going to hire a forensic accountant to probe into your financial details unless you're rich and have a lot of assets. It would cost them more than it is worth.

[cityish]

So much great advice here I don't know where to begin. Thanks everyone.

Now I don't know the particulars of who you owe and how much or how many. But only one can garnish at a time. Now I have no idea where you live so state law will govern how much if anything can be taken in a garnishment.

I did not know that only one creditor can garnish at a time! That applies anywhere in the U.S.??


I am in Florida where the law allows 25% garnishment and there is a 4 year SOL. Right now I owe $20k or so mostly on two cards with Cap One and two cards with Washington Mutual; but the total balance is going up fast what with late/over limit fees.

I also owe $180k on my Chase mortgage; and $30k on my Countrywide HELOC which is all in a pending foreclosure.


I earn $38k as a teacher. I cannot switch jobs or districts... I just can't. I love what I do. Teaching positions are being cut everywhere in Fla. right now, so transferring to another district is not an option.

I don't think the credit card people know where I work, unless I wrote it on an old application years ago. I'm pretty sure Chase and Countrywide have all that info, including my salary.

I think I'm likeliest to get sued by Countrywide and CapOne, from what I've read. Chase will probably do OK in the foreclosure auction because they have first dibs on the proceeds.

E]
The second part is getting the money out of you. I am not advocating how to avoid collection of a judgment just that if: your bank account is empty and or closed they have no way of knowing where your money is or has been moved too.

I am getting ready to switch banks. But before I do that, I'm trying to find out how to make myself more judgment proof. I read online, I think a lawyer's website, where you can form an LLC in Florida for a couple hundred dollars. Then you go an open a new checking account in the LLC's name, and list yourself as the signor on the account. Supposedly this means if you get a judgment down the line, money in LLC is untouchable.

Likewise (according to what I read)... you supposedly can sell the title of your car to the LLC and then the car would be judgment proof.

I have no idea whether this is accurate or not, I really haven't researched it, but if it is true I will go that route.

In my case I own a paid-for Honda that's 7 years old and has a blue book value of about $8k. So I do need to protect the car.

And yes I hear what everyone is saying about not hiding things from the court... I would never do that. I mean if a court asked me for my financial info I would be truthful about all of it including the LLC. But I'm a single person, I have no family nearby. I am alone in all of this. If my car gets taken, I'm SCREWED.

On a side note, do not, I mean do not drive a car you own outright to court you can end up having to surrender the vehicle to the court at that time. Always have a friend drive you unless your not the legal owner of the car...LOL

Just the idea of going to court scares the cr@p out of me!! Thanks for the advice though...! Mental note to leave the car at a friend's house that day!

[BigJohn]

Back in 1996 I went thru a divorce. To make things short, I disappeared.

I got an apartment on a prepaid short lease. By paying in advance, I didn't have to do a credit check. Before the lease expired, I renewed for a longer term. No credit check.

I opened a savings account. No credit check. I started a business which I incorporated. I got from the business a Visa debit card. No credit check.

I opened a P.O. Box. No credit check. My mail went to the P.O. Box as if it was a physical address. No problems. My driver's liscense's address was my mail box. I can still do that today but technically that is illegal.

The only creditor was a local creditor and they got my name from a local dentist who claimed I owed more money. I always paid that dentist in advance and in cash. Crooked dentist.

My other creditors never caught up with me. Today, things have changed. I don't know if what I did could still be used, but I think some of the info might be helpful.