Complaint from atty - looks like its from the court...

[dscurlock]

I guess this is my real first complaint..it come to my po box
by reg mail...it is from the atty, but it is all dressed up as
it might be from the court which it is not...

This is on the head of the letter:

State of MN
County of Henn

District Court
Fourth Judicial Dist

Summons and Complaint

This collector has been sending me collection letters on
this one $15k debt that is about 5 years old now...

This is what it states:

You are hereby summoned and required to serve upon plaintiff's
attorney an answer to the complaint which is herewith served
upon you, within 20 days after service of this summons, if you fail
to do so, then judgement by default maybe taken against you...

and on the answer letter they want me to sign:

If you do not complete and return to the sender within 20 days,
then a judgement by default will be taken against you for the
relief demanded in the complaint...

What do you guys think...

This is not a letter from the court, nor a court letter
that says I must appear to answer these charges..

I see it funny as they alone are saying they can give
me judgement without me ever getting a notice
to appear in court...

at this point, I probably would not show anyway...my
credit is so far in the toliet..and I have been unemployed
for a few years now that it does not even seem to matter..

it just seems like they are fishing, or getting ready
to go the next level...they would just be wasting
their own money going to the next level...

Thanks Guys,

[justbroke]

Reads like... "You've been sued."

To be sure, you can contact the Clerk of the County Court to see if there's a case. There should, at least, be a case number affixed to that "Complaint" on the top in what we call the "caption" area. If your local courts have on-line access, you could search for your case and/or search by your name in the Civil Division of the Court.

Good luck!

[dscurlock]

Reads like... "You've been sued."

To be sure, you can contact the Clerk of the County Court to see if there's a case. There should, at least, be a case number affixed to that "Complaint" on the top in what we call the "caption" area. If your local courts have on-line access, you could search for your case and/or search by your name in the Civil Division of the Court.

Good luck!

there are no numbers or case numbers listed on the letter...

and I have nothing in my name that would benefit anyone...

I am just curious why after all these years they
are trying to push something now...

judgement or not, they will still end up with nothing...
except maybe some court fees and such...

[justbroke]

Well, the name of the game is Junk Debt purchasing. These scum companies buy old junk debt and try to get something before the Statute of Limitations has set in. First, you need to determine the last "activity" date on that account, see if it's outside the Statute of Limitations (SOL), and take any other appropriate action based on that debt. If it's an old $15K debt, they may actually try to file. That's a lot of money and I'm sure the SOL is close (or passed). Again, I'd check with the County Clerk of the Court and see if they filed the complaint.

[WhatMoney]

If I lived in Minnesota and was in danger of being sued, I would move to another state. Minnesota is unique in that what your attorney/collector is doing is perfectly legal.

Here is the real (sad) scoop - ignore the notice and end up with a default judgment:

Minnesota is a friendly state—especially if you are a debt collector

In almost every other state, a debt collector must file a lawsuit either immediately or within a short time after serving the summons and complaint. This means the court has an eye on the lawsuit, and the debt collectors must pay the “entry fee” if they want to use the considerable power of the court system to collect on a judgment.

Not so in Minnesota. In Minnesota, debt collectors get to use the power of the court system without telling the court. This includes the power to take money away from a consumer by garnishing their wages or bank accounts. It is kind of like taking the gavel for a joyride.


Minnesota has a pocket filing rule (also called hip pocket service), that allows debt collectors to start lawsuits without notifying the courts. All they have to do is pay a process server $20 or so to drop off the summons and complaint at—cross your fingers—a defendant’s last-known residence.

Twenty days later, if the defendant did not answer, she has lost the case, which means she owes the money (whether or not she actually owes the money, whether or not the debt collector could have proved its case, and whether or not the debt collector added fees it does not have the right to collect).

Forty days later, the debt collector can start garnishing the debtor’s bank accounts or wages, still without filing the lawsuit.

And here is the kicker: because the debt collector can start garnishment without filing the lawsuit to get a judgment from the court, the debt collector will continue to calculate interest at the original credit card rate—probably 20-30%.

Debt collectors will (often) only file the lawsuit if they find money, because then they already know they will get paid.

It is a little like fishing for cash. Toss out a line—sue a consumer—and see if they bite—fail to respond. If they bite, it’s money for dinner!

In Minnesota, all you need to go fishing for cash is a fill-in-the-blank set of court pleadings and a lack of scruples.

Because it is so cheap and easy, there is a lot of suing going on. Debt collectors filed 36,000 default judgments last year. Only the collectors know how many other lawsuits they started but did not file because they came up empty when they went looking for bank accounts.

It is so cheap and easy, it makes sense for debt collectors to sue every consumer they can, add on all the fees they can, figure out if the consumer has any money to take, and file the lawsuit only if they do.

Who put these rules in place? The Minnesota Supreme Court is responsible for some, the legislature for others. Both have—intentionally or not—made the debt collection industry feel very welcome here.

by Sam Glover on June 18, 2008
http://caveatemptorblog.com/minnesot...ebt-collector/

[dscurlock]

Well, the name of the game is Junk Debt purchasing. These scum companies buy old junk debt and try to get something before the Statute of Limitations has set in. First, you need to determine the last "activity" date on that account, see if it's outside the Statute of Limitations (SOL), and take any other appropriate action based on that debt. If it's an old $15K debt, they may actually try to file. That's a lot of money and I'm sure the SOL is close (or passed). Again, I'd check with the County Clerk of the Court and see if they filed the complaint.

The collector says it is First USA Bank NA ..I have never had a credit
card that high, in fact, I do not recall any of my debt including
credit cards...then there is the mention of Pinnacle financial..which
brings nothing to mind either...I think this is resold debt...

I just looked at the court records for civil...nothing
found in the name that I listed...

Last Actvi (on my part) would be around 2004/2005 - in order
to be exact, I would have to pull a credit report.

What is a creditors time limit on filing a judgement? I know stuff
like this stays on your credit for 7 years...

all of my debt was in AL around the above time frame, now
some MN atty is following me around all these years later...

[dscurlock]

If I lived in Minnesota and was in danger of being sued, I would move to another state. Minnesota is unique in that what your attorney/collector is doing is perfectly legal.

Here is the real (sad) scoop - ignore the notice and end up with a default judgment:

Minnesota is a friendly state—especially if you are a debt collector

In almost every other state, a debt collector must file a lawsuit either immediately or within a short time after serving the summons and complaint. This means the court has an eye on the lawsuit, and the debt collectors must pay the “entry fee” if they want to use the considerable power of the court system to collect on a judgment.

Not so in Minnesota. In Minnesota, debt collectors get to use the power of the court system without telling the court. This includes the power to take money away from a consumer by garnishing their wages or bank accounts. It is kind of like taking the gavel for a joyride.


Minnesota has a pocket filing rule (also called hip pocket service), that allows debt collectors to start lawsuits without notifying the courts. All they have to do is pay a process server $20 or so to drop off the summons and complaint at—cross your fingers—a defendant’s last-known residence.

Twenty days later, if the defendant did not answer, she has lost the case, which means she owes the money (whether or not she actually owes the money, whether or not the debt collector could have proved its case, and whether or not the debt collector added fees it does not have the right to collect).

Forty days later, the debt collector can start garnishing the debtor’s bank accounts or wages, still without filing the lawsuit.

And here is the kicker: because the debt collector can start garnishment without filing the lawsuit to get a judgment from the court, the debt collector will continue to calculate interest at the original credit card rate—probably 20-30%.

Debt collectors will (often) only file the lawsuit if they find money, because then they already know they will get paid.

It is a little like fishing for cash. Toss out a line—sue a consumer—and see if they bite—fail to respond. If they bite, it’s money for dinner!

In Minnesota, all you need to go fishing for cash is a fill-in-the-blank set of court pleadings and a lack of scruples.

Because it is so cheap and easy, there is a lot of suing going on. Debt collectors filed 36,000 default judgments last year. Only the collectors know how many other lawsuits they started but did not file because they came up empty when they went looking for bank accounts.

It is so cheap and easy, it makes sense for debt collectors to sue every consumer they can, add on all the fees they can, figure out if the consumer has any money to take, and file the lawsuit only if they do.

Who put these rules in place? The Minnesota Supreme Court is responsible for some, the legislature for others. Both have—intentionally or not—made the debt collection industry feel very welcome here.

by Sam Glover on June 18, 2008
http://caveatemptorblog.com/minnesot...ebt-collector/

really...I dont recall getting any type of notice...no one
gave me anything, nor did I sign for anything...I am
not sure what you are talking about

"Debt collectors will only file the lawsuit if they find money, because then they already know they will get paid."

My wife has money, but according to MN state law..you can not take wifes funds to pay husbands bills...
but this does not mean they are honest, they may try to freeze/seize what they think they can get..
even if it is not legally theirs...

personally, I have nothing, I have no funds that are earn by me...
house is not in my name, am not employeed...I have nothing...

[WhatMoney]

really...I dont recall getting any type of notice...no one
gave me anything, nor did I sign for anything...I am
not sure what you are talking about

Your own quote from your original post:

I guess this is my real first complaint..it come to my po box
by reg mail...it is from the atty,

You have been served by reg. mail by the attorney. The article I attached is about as clear as it could be.

The SOL in MN for CC debt is 6 years. This is why they are going after you before the SOL kicks in. If you answer, give a general denial - deny the debt is yours. If you acknowledge the debt in your answer you will toll the SOL.

Sorry you live in MN. It is a terrible state for debtors.

[dscurlock]

Your own quote from your original post:


You have been served by reg. mail by the attorney. The article I attached is about as clear as it could be.

The SOL in MN for CC debt is 6 years. This is why they are going after you before the SOL kicks in. If you answer, give a general denial - deny the debt is yours. If you acknowledge the debt in your answer you will toll the SOL.

Sorry you live in MN. It is a terrible state for debtors.

what I am saying..whos to say I reallly even got it...they served
it by reg mail with no sig....mail gets lost all the time...maybe
they served it to a similar name...what I am saying there is
no proof that I even got it.....they just send it to a post office
box...? how is that even a legal serve?

but anyways...this is not a notice to ack the debt, or whom
the debt belongs too, basicly they are saying, sign this ackment that
you rec'd this letter, or within 20 days, we will send judgement...

Signing this ackment of recpt is only an admission that you have rec'd
this summons and complaint...and does not waive any other defences...

Why send this at all if they are unsure who they are sending
it to that they want an ackment that I rec'd it...

by signing this, basicly I am signing that I am the person
you are after, so go right ahead and file judgement...

how damn stupid of a person to sign this letter of ackment...they
just want to know you are the one they are going after...

otherwise they have no official proof that i have rec'd anything...
If I send it back signed, they know who they are suing without question...

[dscurlock]

Your own quote from your original post:


You have been served by reg. mail by the attorney. The article I attached is about as clear as it could be.

The SOL in MN for CC debt is 6 years. This is why they are going after you before the SOL kicks in. If you answer, give a general denial - deny the debt is yours. If you acknowledge the debt in your answer you will toll the SOL.

Sorry you live in MN. It is a terrible state for debtors.

Does it matter where the debt started? it did not start in MN...

[flyinbroke]

Does it matter where the debt started? it did not start in MN...

Nope. It matters where the debtor lives.

[dscurlock]

In the event they do file judgement, or attempt to seize bank accounts.
I have found this out about MN joint accounts:

The states have a hodgepodge of rules that govern money held in joint accounts, but Minnesota has adopted the Multi-Party Accounts Act, under which the person who deposited the funds, owns the funds. In order to garnish or levy funds in a joint account, a creditor must first prove who owns those funds. This only makes sense; you do not get to take Joe’s money to pay Jimmy’s debt.

http://caveatemptorblog.com/minnesotans-may-sue-if-a-debt-collector-levies-funds-in-a-joint-account/

[WhatMoney]

In the event they do file judgement, or attempt to seize bank accounts.
I have found this out about MN joint accounts:

The states have a hodgepodge of rules that govern money held in joint accounts, but Minnesota has adopted the Multi-Party Accounts Act, under which the person who deposited the funds, owns the funds. In order to garnish or levy funds in a joint account, a creditor must first prove who owns those funds. This only makes sense; you do not get to take Joe’s money to pay Jimmy’s debt.

http://caveatemptorblog.com/minnesot...joint-account/

First of all, when you say reg. mail, most assume it means registered mail, which is a legitimate means of service. You might spell out your abbreviations to avoid further confusion.

I think you have not understood the attorney's article you are quoting. He is only saying that IF a creditor issues a bank levy on a joint account that the non-debtor party of the joint account has the right to hire an attorney and sue the collector.

This does not stop a collector with a judgment from freezing and levying all accounts with your name on them, including joint accounts. Nor can you expect the bank to bother trying to figure out how joint account ownership is allocated. That is your job in the courts when you are defending against the seizure.

The law is in flux. At the moment, joint accounts are vulnerable to garnishment or levy, although non-debtors whose accounts are garnished for someone else’s debts may be able to sue if that happens. That doesn’t help much if all the money is gone, however.
Sam Glover January 12, 2010 at 10:22 am
Quoted from Attorney Sam Glover in the same article you quoted above..

You can certainly ignore the attorney's pre-filing summons. That's what he wants. Now he can file, note your lack of response to his 20-day summons, and get a default judgment if he thinks you have any assets. Since you are saying you don't want to raise a defense (eg. you deny it is your debt in an answer) you might as well prepare for a possible judgment by protecting your assets. You don't do this by keeping a joint account with someone else's money on deposit in the joint account. The innocent joint holder could lose all their money before you could do anything.

[WhatMoney]

Originally Posted by dscurlock>
but anyways...this is not a notice to ack the debt, or whom
the debt belongs too, basicly they are saying, sign this ackment that
you rec'd this letter, or within 20 days, we will send judgement...

Signing this ackment of recpt is only an admission that you have rec'd
this summons and complaint...and does not waive any other defences...

Why send this at all if they are unsure who they are sending
it to that they want an ackment that I rec'd it...

by signing this, basicly I am signing that I am the person
you are after, so go right ahead and file judgement...

how damn stupid of a person to sign this letter of ackment...they
just want to know you are the one they are going after...

otherwise they have no official proof that i have rec'd anything...
If I send it back signed, they know who they are suing without question...

First, this is the well known "pocket service" that is legal in MN, and almost no other states.

Pocket service is lawyer slang for the procedural rule in Minnesota that a lawsuit begins with service of the summons and complaint. This is different than the rule in most states and the federal courts, where a lawsuit begins with filing of the summons and complaint.

When coupled with Minnesota’s rules on pre-judgment garnishment, this can cause serious problems. A defendant who was never properly served, for example, can end up getting money taken from their bank account without any notice or any chance to respond to the lawsuit.

I've looked up the MN Rules of Civil Procedure (your welcome), and your question about ignoring the letter sent by regular mail is answered there. Here is the relevant section:

4.05 Service by Mail

In any action service may be made by mailing a copy of the summons and of the complaint (by first-class mail, postage prepaid) to the person to be served, together with two copies of a notice and acknowledgment conforming substantially to Form 22 and a return envelope, postage prepaid, addressed to the sender. If acknowledgment of service under this rule is not received by the sender within the time defendant is required by these rules to serve an answer, service shall be ineffectual.

Unless good cause is shown for not doing so, the court shall order the payment of the costs of personal service by the person served if such person does not complete and return the notice and acknowledgment of receipt of summons within the time allowed by these rules.

http://www.mncourts.gov/rules/civil/rcp.htm#C301

[blondeinmn]

As I also live in Minnesota and have faced a similar situation, I'd like to clarify a few things. First, service by regular mail is allowed in Minnesota. Service is only valid if you sign the paper and return it to the plaintiff. My recomendation is that you don't do that. You are making it very easy and inexpensive for them to serve you. Ignore the summons and throw it away. This is a collection tactic designed to scare you. If the plaintiff truely desires to sue you, they will have to send a process server to serve you the summons. This costs alot more than a first class stamp. If they really wanted to sue you, they already would have done this. If you are properly served, absolutely respond. Deny each allegation with the following, insufficient knowledge to either affirm or deny except those which are obviously true such as resident of county, name etc. I recieved a summons from an attorney over a debt the first week of October 2009. Responded within the twenty days denying all allegations and haven't heard a word since. The plaintiff has never filed the case with the court nor have they responded to my answer. I also informed them of my intention to file bankruptcy and all my assets are exempt. In minnesota it costs $340.00 to file a case and I just think they prefer default judgements. I'm sure they did a search on my assets and found nothing and checked my credit report, which looks like omaha beach. These collection tactics are designed to instill panic in you. Develop a short term and long term strategy to deal with your financial problems. Avoiding default judgements is a short term strategy. Deal with it, respond to any valid summons, make it difficult for them, all you need is a computer and $5.00 for certified mail. I haven,t paid on any of my debts for 17 months. All I've done is spend a couple of hours per week writing letters so I can plan my bankruptcy properly. Do likewise, and you will be fine. It,s just a business decision.