Chase wants Payment in Full after Discharge of BK...my letter to them?

[tobee43]

Tobee, they are not going to read that believe me. Also it is not a violation of anything because they put that "BK" disclaimer statement in there, it is for your information only.

oh, i totally disagree, i have not stated their letter in full. it's a clear violation. the letter really has no disclaimer at all. actually the words after the" if you filed or have a bk discharge" it's not for informational purposes at all, it's for THEIR information...i didn't word that well enough... they say.... we are a collection firm and all information is to collect a debt. i just put bits and pieces of the letter. but if read in entirety there is no doubt in my mind whatsoever. i have seen many of these letters, and by far this is the most blatant. (my fault for the way i wrote the post)

i am an advent believer that most precautionary C & D letters are a waste of time and effort. in this case, a simply phone call may have sufficed, however, i want a paper trail, that is the main reason for this letter i am sending.

it's clearly a violation, believe me.

the letter you are reading is my response to them. they actually ask me to submit the check to them for full payment and threaten to sue me since it's not a violation of the fair debt act to do so within a 30 day period of rec'ing their letter. it's not only one violation, but at this point chase has done this more than a few times.

i know i didn't have to respond, however, i would really like to push the foreclosure of that property. that has to due with their threat to pursue an in rem remedy. additionally, the implications of that statement is actually liable.

they will read it, maybe chase will not, but they will.

[df04527]

Tobee, they are not going to read that believe me. Also it is not a violation of anything because they put that "BK" disclaimer statement in there, it is for your information only.

[tobee43]

never! i eliminated number 5...and it's ready to go out the door, i hope tomorrow.

[Floridagail]

Wow Unbelieveable. It never ends.

[tobee43]

haaaaaaa....

so we get a letter rep'ing Chase, or actually from an atty stating they are rep'ing them...but also suggesting there may be another creditor??? too weird... they are now stating they are going to pursue suing us for the balance of our mortgage PLUS interest and fees (they are almost 200k) the law firm is legit. but the letter they sent is so poorly written, they continued to cite the fair debt collection act, how that act really doesn't protect me from them taking legal action and so on and so forth. in one line said if you have been discharged from a bk, the firm is not attempting to collect a debt but rather this notice is for information purposes and to pursue an in rem remedy as to the collateral only...i ask what collateral LOL! in rem....so now they are suggesting we are serial filers of bk, and the courts have our property????? it's not sent registered, or cert mail. but it's real. they are asking that i send them a check for $562,326.17 ROFL!!!!

here's my preliminary letter i have to work on. i'd like some comments if anyone has any. i know i don't really have to even bother to answer them. but i'm thinking this is such a blatant violation that it should be pursued. if it didn't come from a firm which has been business for over 40 years, not meaning that makes them any more special, but it does land them some credibility...i suppose.

i have removed all names and dates etc.


From:


December 2012

Via United States certified mail, return receipt requested,

To:

Re:

Your Reference:

Cease & Desist
Dear ,

We are in receipt of your letter dated December ,2012, stating your firm has been retained for the purpose of legal action against for a debt with JPChase as the creditor and suggesting there is another creditor, requesting payment in the amount of $562,326.17.

As per the US Bankruptcy Code YOU AND YOUR FIRM ARE REQUIRED TO CEASE AND DESIST ALL CONTACT BY MAIL, PHONE OR OTHERWISE IN A EFFORT TO COLLECT ANY DEBT THAT HAS BEEN DISCHARGED IN A UNITED STATES BANKRUPTCY COURT, OR TO FILE OR CONTINUE A LAWSUIT, OR TO TAKE ANY OTHER ACTION TO COLLECT A DISCHARGED DEBT FROM US:

We have knowledge of the following actions from you and on the creditor’s behalf:

1. JPMorgan Chase Bank, National Assoc., has been and is aware of the filing of and discharged and close Orders issued in the case of our Bankruptcy. They have been in violation of the order in the past. By copy of this letter they are also being put on notice.

2. Your letter is a blatant violation of the Bankruptcy Code section 524 (a) (2) which provides that a discharge operates as an injunction against the commencement or continuation of an action, the employment of process, or an act to collect, recover or offset any such debt or claim as a personal liability of the Debtor.

3. Further your threats to take legal action against us citing the Fair Debt Collections Practices is a continued misuse of the system and its practices.

4. Your attempt to pursue an in rem remedy, is both slanderous and a bit (just about 5.5 years) off point. To suggest that we are serial filers are grounds for us to file suit against you. In rem actions are permitted only when the court has control of the property or where its authority extends to cover it, there is no situation that warrants such action.


5. The Code very broadly defines “claim” to include any right to payment or right to an equitable remedy if such remedy gives rise to a right to payment, whether or not such right is reduced to judgment, liquidated, unliquidated, fixed, contingent, matured, unmatured, disputed, legal, equitable, secured or unsecured. [Code sec. 101 (5)].

We find it appalling that we have to remind you that the discharge automatically voids any judgment at any time obtained to the extent such judgment is a determination of the personal liability of the debtor on a discharged debt. Thus, should a creditor institute suit in a state court after the discharge, and obtain a judgment against the debtor, the judgment is rendered null and void ab initio, even if no affirmative defense was interposed. The purpose of these provisions is to make it absolutely unnecessary for the debtor to do anything at all in the state court action.

Attached for your records are copies of the Order of Discharge for ____________ AND the Order of Approving Trustee’s Report of No Distribution. Both issued ______________.

Upon receipt of receiving the order of discharge, you are put on notice that if you continue to contact us,you will violate the injunction provisions at your own risk. Such violation is an invitation to contempt proceedings. Violation of the order of discharge is considered contempt of court.

The bankruptcy court has the inherent power to punish for contemptuous conduct. [Code sec. 105 (a) and Rule 9020 (b)]. Case law is replete with references that violations of the discharge injunction are not to be taken lightly and will not be tolerated.

If you do not cease and desist your attempts to collection or continue to contact us, we shall follow the stated actions below:


File A Contempt Motion. A regular motion brought in the bankruptcy court will be filed against you and the creditor and is sufficient to seek contempt. Since our bankruptcy case was closed, we will, if necessary seek to the re-opening of the case pursuant to Code sec. 350 (b). If necessary, we will immediately seek an injunction to stop you and the creditor, you represent from executing any further legal action, an order to show cause can and will be brought.

Request from the Court Sanctions, Punitive Awards and Attorneys Fees. Bankruptcy case law provides that a debtor may collect costs, reasonable attorneys fees, sanctions, punitive damages, and compensatory damages against creditors and their attorneys who violate the order of discharge. We will pursue this aggressively.

The courts have held that a collection attorney has a continuing obligation to review and reevaluate his pleadings upon discovery that they may be without merit or in violation of the law. Thus, it is imperative we put you on notice by certified mail that you and your client are violating the Bankruptcy Code to establish your duty of inquiry.

As you are aware, there are many cases were sanctions and punitive damages have been awarded in the thousands of dollars against creditors and their attorneys for violating the order of discharge. We ask and request that you take heed of the power of the discharge issued by the courts immediately.




Very Truly Yours,

___________________________ ___________________________



CC: JPMorgan Chase Bank
Attached: Copies of Orders of Discharge and Close