NC-Expensive wedding ring- will they take it?

[Lovesgirl]

My husband and I lived together for 10 years and finally married and have been married for 7 years. We had a prenup that the ring was considered mine before the marriage and mine to keep if we split. It is 3 pieces and has been valued at around $24,000 by an appraiser and we have an insurance policy on it. We are maybe about to file personal bankruptcy. I am worried they will take my ring. We are in NC. Can anyone advise me on this? If I have another diamond should I wear it instead? Not wear one at all? Cancel my policy now? Any advice is much appreciated.

[MSbklawyer]

My husband and I lived together for 10 years and finally married and have been married for 7 years. We had a prenup that the ring was considered mine before the marriage and mine to keep if we split. It is 3 pieces and has been valued at around $24,000 by an appraiser and we have an insurance policy on it. We are maybe about to file personal bankruptcy. I am worried they will take my ring. We are in NC. Can anyone advise me on this? If I have another diamond should I wear it instead? Not wear one at all? Cancel my policy now? Any advice is much appreciated.

Wearing a different diamond won't change anything. You are required to disclose all property you own when you file bk. Wearing a different diamond won't change the fact that you own this one.

I don't know anything about NC's exemption statute, so I don't know if there would be a way to exempt it or not. But in any event, don't try to hide ownership of it. Were you to be found out you could face perjury charges and denial of your discharge.

[Lovesgirl]

How do I estimate value for exemption?

If I want to have the ring be exempt. How would I estimate the value? I've heard people say what you'd get at a yard sale, what you'd get if you sold it on ebay, craigslist, or to take it to a pawn shop and get a paper from them as to what they would pay for it. Are any of these good estimates that bk would accept. The cut of the center stone is rare so there isn't much market for it, cause supposedly the value is higher but the size of the stone is fairly small, you could get a huge diamond much bigger for the same money he spent.

Does my prenup not protect it all? or is that only if we divorced?

[jribe]

If I want to have the ring be exempt. How would I estimate the value? I've heard people say what you'd get at a yard sale, what you'd get if you sold it on ebay, craigslist, or to take it to a pawn shop and get a paper from them as to what they would pay for it. Are any of these good estimates that bk would accept. The cut of the center stone is rare so there isn't much market for it, cause supposedly the value is higher but the size of the stone is fairly small, you could get a huge diamond much bigger for the same money he spent.

Does my prenup not protect it all? or is that only if we divorced?

the prenup has nothing to do with your bankruptcy. Seriously- nothing. Don't try to hide the asset- that's where many people get into trouble. You can cause yourself a lot of pain by doing this- an audit by the US Trustee will not be fun- neither will your case being thrown out. There is a record of you owning it- an insurance policy etc. They will even ask about sales of expensive items. On a ring that is appraised at 24k, you're not going to be able to use a "yard sale" type thing and say "2k". You have to give a reasonable amount, probably at least 10k. How long ago was the appraisal? If the cut of the stone is rare- that usually would place the value higher..Most people that post what they would get for it at a yard sale, etc are talking about much lesser rings.

[MSbklawyer]

If I want to have the ring be exempt.

Ask your lawyer if you could sell the ring and convert the cash into an exempt asset.

[BobMango]

You don't say whether you're filing 7 or 13 or how much homestead exemption you might need, but in NC you do have a $5K wildcard exemption (of unused homestead) that should be doubled for a married couple. That would give you at least $10K of protection. If the trustee wants to seize your rings he'd have to give you the value of the exemption. I'd be prepared for the trustee to ask for an appraisal on something of that value in any case.

[OhioFiler]

I'd go out and get a couple new appraisals. I'll bet someone will appraise it much lower than $24,000. A lot of appraisals are done for various reasons. One may be to establish an insurance value and it will probably be higher than the appraisal the jeweler at the local jewelry store will give you if you were desperate to sell it for cash.

[Minnymouth]

Get an appraisal from a jeweler for "insurance purposes"........ This will help you realize where you stand on the ring.
Unfortunately, the Trustee will see $$$$$ when he discovers you have it, and he will!!
I'm betting the value of it cannot be exempted in your state, and if you want to keep it, you will have to pay the value of the difference between what's exempt and what isn't.
Keep us posted as to what you find out, courious postion to be in!

Unfortunately the BK Courts could care less about sentimental value of property, no matter what it is. Anything that will bring "cash" - is seized unless its exempt in BK Court.

So when you file, you may be expected to "turn it over" to the Trustee......
If you try to hide it - that's fraud.....

[walkthaplank]

Get an appraisal from a jeweler for "insurance purposes"........ This will help you realize where you stand on the ring.
Unfortunately, the Trustee will see $$$$$ when he discovers you have it, and he will!!
I'm betting the value of it cannot be exempted in your state, and if you want to keep it, you will have to pay the value of the difference between what's exempt and what isn't.
Keep us posted as to what you find out, courious postion to be in!

Unfortunately the BK Courts could care less about sentimental value of property, no matter what it is. Anything that will bring "cash" - is seized unless its exempt in BK Court.

So when you file, you may be expected to "turn it over" to the Trustee......
If you try to hide it - that's fraud.....

DO NOT get an appraisal for "Insurance purposes". They purposefully inflate the value for insurance purposes to cover potential increase in value over the next few years. Go to a pawn shop and ask them what would they pay to purchase it from you. See if they'll give you something in writing (because you need to talk it over with your spouse).

[Lovesgirl]

found out from bk attorney

she gave me the name of someone she uses for appraisals from a jewelry store, she said to ask for quote for "quick sale" and it is basically what you could actually get if you sold it craigslist or sold to a pawn shop. She suggested I go to a pawn shop and ask them the same thing and get their response in writing. Said she didn't think I had anything to worry about that having a ring valued at $25K, you'd probably never get that or anything close. So we are going to do that this week, I'll post what the quick sell appraisal is for.

[momisery]

Not as expensive of course, but I took a ring in to a pawn shop with some gold chains a while back. The gold chains were broken and I ended up with 58.00 for a bunch of them. The ring has a 1 carat diamond and 6 little rubies and is 14K. I got it when I worked for a jewelry store for really cheap, but the retail value about 20 years ago was 2600.00 Anyhow, they offered me 50.00 for it because they don't buy diamonds but they wanted the gold. Things that are for insurance value are if you want to replace them with brand new what it would cost.... the true value is shocking.

[Flowers]

I would LOVE to see a pic of said diamond ring. but I suppose that would be inappropriate and invasion of privacy on such a forum !

Whatever the outcome, I hope you get to keep your ring and wear it in good health!

[Iwantmyname]

My feeling: You have debts and you have a 20K ring that you could have used to pay some of those debts? It is about money not about emotion. I personally think that you should offer it to the trustee. Basically, for us poor people, we get out of BK with out battered egos and our Lives. I do not like the idea of someone slinking off with a 20K wedding ring in their pocket. The advice you are asking is whether to hide it or not. You are asking people how to break the law. As the other poster, MSbklawyer, pointed out, you are required to disclose all property when going BK.

[BobMango]

My feeling: You have debts and you have a 20K ring that you could have used to pay some of those debts? It is about money not about emotion. I personally think that you should offer it to the trustee. Basically, for us poor people, we get out of BK with out battered egos and our Lives. I do not like the idea of someone slinking off with a 20K wedding ring in their pocket. The advice you are asking is whether to hide it or not. You are asking people how to break the law. As the other poster, MSbklawyer, pointed out, you are required to disclose all property when going BK.

The concept behind bankruptcy laws is not to force you to spend every last dime paying off debt, but to provide a fresh start. The OP, like many people here I think, has difficulty letting go of certain items. Her concern may not be protecting the money, but simply not wanting to part with something that has significant sentimental value. Because of its value, the ring is certainly a target for the trustee, but asking for advice on how to protect it should not expose the OP to judgments regarding greed, motive, etc.

The original question certainly seems to indicate that the OP was considering not disclosing, but I think many of us with certain sentimental assets have probably gone through a similar mental exercise out of desperation. She's received some good advice here (get a realistic appraisal, don't try to hide it, etc.) which after all is the point behind these forums if I am not mistaken.

[eddiep]

I know this is a crappy postion to be in, its not just a ring, but a symbol of your union with your hubby. I totally sympathize.

was this ring purchased with a cc? I know there was another member here who was shocked at his 341 when the trustee asked where the ring was that he purchased on one of the cards he was discharging and why it was not listed among his assets. The trustee obviously did his homework. He wanted the name of the girl he gave the ring to, I assume to contact her and get the ring back. So be very careful if there is a paper trail back to this ring.

I was very worried that I would not be able to exempt my son's dirtbike, I would have felt lower than dirt if I had to take that from him. But after thinking about it, I realized that I am walking away from alot of debt, alot more than that dirtbike was worth. Not really the same as a $20k engagement ring I know but just try to keep it in perspective.