Trustee's motion for turnover of property

[beachymama]

What additional exemptions am I possibly eligible for in Florida?

Tools of the Trade (teacher)?
Head of Household 6 months salary?
Child Support?

I am not homesteaded now as I chose to give up the homes.

I just want to make sure that my attorney is documenting everything correctly. How do I start documenting to show it was valued incorrectly? Do I go down the list and write when and where I bought stuff and how much I paid? I am not sure I have receipts for everything. Do I go on Craigslist? Ebay? How do I prove she is valuing stuff above what you can get at garage sale.

If I could get $9000 for this stuff at garage sale, I would have my own! LOL!



As I looked at the asset worksheet, she has me down for only $500 in household goods exempted only.

Fun!

[backtoschool]

What additional exemptions am I possibly eligible for in Florida?

Tools of the Trade (teacher)?
Head of Household 6 months salary?
Child Support?

I am not homesteaded now as I chose to give up the homes.

I just want to make sure that my attorney is documenting everything correctly. How do I start documenting to show it was valued incorrectly? Do I go down the list and write when and where I bought stuff and how much I paid? I am not sure I have receipts for everything. Do I go on Craigslist? Ebay? How do I prove she is valuing stuff above what you can get at garage sale.

If I could get $9000 for this stuff at garage sale, I would have my own! LOL!



As I looked at the asset worksheet, she has me down for only $500 in household goods exempted only.

Fun!

Florida's exemptions are really bad if you are not using their generous homestead exemption. Your child support will be exempt as well as your head-of-the-household salary. You have $5,000 total wildcard exemption since you are not taking the homestead exemption. You also have $1,000 exemption for your car, and $1,000 exemption for your household and personal goods.

Value your furniture at what you could get for it on craig's list in the condition it is in. If you push back on the household goods you will most likely win, because the trustee does not want the extra expense of trying to sell your used sofa and mattress.

Typically, trustee's push back the most on cars. Use the NADA value for your car if you were to sell it yourself in "average" condition.

[beachymama]

I have a hearing on March 26th per the attorney today. The attorney says applied $6000 in exemptions, but the furniture valued at $8900 vs. the $500 exempted put me way over...duh.

It does not seem as if she is exempting the child support and my head of household pay. It is showing up as part of the $6000 exempted, like it is part of the $5000 wildcard.

Help me understand.

I should have the $5000 wildcard, $1000 for my car, $1000 for my household goods, so that is $7000 exempted. Plus my child support exemption should not be part of the $5000 wildcard, nor should my pay correct? I had approximately $2400 in child support and $2100 in salary in my accounts when I filed.

If so, than the attorney did not do this. All I see on the asset worksheet is a total of $6000 exempted for everything, including money in bank account, household goods, clothing, jewelry, car, cash.

Is that correct that I should have the $7000 in exemptions plus that $4500 in my bank accounts exempted as long as I can show proof (they are direct deposited)? Or am I assuming wrong?

What to expect at a hearing? Is this where I present the dates, ages, conditions of the furniture and then a comparison of similar sales on Craigslist?

Thank you for your help!

[backtoschool]

I have a hearing on March 26th per the attorney today. The attorney says applied $6000 in exemptions, but the furniture valued at $8900 vs. the $500 exempted put me way over...duh.

It does not seem as if she is exempting the child support and my head of household pay. It is showing up as part of the $6000 exempted, like it is part of the $5000 wildcard.

Help me understand.

I should have the $5000 wildcard, $1000 for my car, $1000 for my household goods, so that is $7000 exempted. Plus my child support exemption should not be part of the $5000 wildcard, nor should my pay correct? I had approximately $2400 in child support and $2100 in salary in my accounts when I filed.

If so, than the attorney did not do this. All I see on the asset worksheet is a total of $6000 exempted for everything, including money in bank account, household goods, clothing, jewelry, car, cash.

Is that correct that I should have the $7000 in exemptions plus that $4500 in my bank accounts exempted as long as I can show proof (they are direct deposited)? Or am I assuming wrong?

What to expect at a hearing? Is this where I present the dates, ages, conditions of the furniture and then a comparison of similar sales on Craigslist?

Thank you for your help!

The child support was probably not exempted as child support because it was sitting in your bank account as cash. It should still be exempt though.

The salary may not be exempt if it is sitting in your account. Your attorney will have to help you on that one.

I think the attorney is using your wildcard for the cash and did not single it out as salary or child support.

Your furniture is definitely valued less than $8,900.

[DeadManCrawling]

In our case, money in our accounts was exempted as "head of household" wages, to the amount of about 3k.

This money did not appear in the normal exemptions as listed on schedules. In fact, it did not appear ANYWHERE. Nor did our SS payment for our son.

In fact, this income was never listed at all, anywhere, period. Our attorney was very clear on this point: Since it was exempt, it was not even to be listed as income. Anywhere. Ever.

So that is how it went.

I am unclear, aside from potential Totality arguments, why it WOULD be listed.

We had, on filing day, approximately 5-6k in cash in the accounts. Now, this shows up in the bank statements, of course, but we were never asked about it. I am not sure if our attorney spoke to the trustee about the exemptions, or how it was not questioned. But it wasn't.

[DeadManCrawling]

And no way is average furniture worth almost 9k. Just not possible unless you are sitting in a house stuffed with appraised and insured antiques.

I would use that as a first avenue of attack.

[beachymama]

Did anyone use the TOOLS OF THE TRADE exemption, if there is such a thing?

No Antiques. Lots of Rooms To Go stuff and Robb & Stucky outlet pieces. I have three kids ages 14 to 7, half my stuff they have left their mark on.

She valued stuff like my lawn mower, a generator, my kids video consoles, computer, printer, stove, refrigerator, washer-dryer, etc, in addition to every piece of furniture!

I know I have a nice home and it presents well, but if she would have looked closer, she would see the computers are missing letter keys, two of the tables have legs that come off and my tables are all scratched up and the sofas smell like pee.

Ahhhh, life is fun.

[backtoschool]

Did anyone use the TOOLS OF THE TRADE exemption, if there is such a thing?

No Antiques. Lots of Rooms To Go stuff and Robb & Stucky outlet pieces. I have three kids ages 14 to 7, half my stuff they have left their mark on.

She valued stuff like my lawn mower, a generator, my kids video consoles, computer, printer, stove, refrigerator, washer-dryer, etc, in addition to every piece of furniture!

I know I have a nice home and it presents well, but if she would have looked closer, she would see the computers are missing letter keys, two of the tables have legs that come off and my tables are all scratched up and the sofas smell like pee.

Ahhhh, life is fun.

There is no tools of the trade exemption in Florida.

[beachymama]

Attorney ignores my email requests to have my pay and child support exempted. Is it too late to do this? and just asks me for a $250 check to negotiate with the Trustee.

[backtoschool]

Attorney ignores my email requests to have my pay and child support exempted. Is it too late to do this? and just asks me for a $250 check to negotiate with the Trustee.

Is the $250 check a retainer for the attorney or money to pay the trustee?

Tell your attorney you want to amend your petition to exempt your pay and child support.

The court cost to amend a petition is under 50 dollars. Anything else is what your attorney is adding on top of that.

[beachymama]

talked to the attorney today. She tells me that she told me, her assistant told me and the trustee told me that my child support is income and that my pay is not being garnished so I do not get to exempt it. She was very rude and did not want to discuss it.

How can I do this on my own or does anyone have an attorney in SW or South Florida that knows the Florida law and the Middle District of Florida trustees, so that I can pay them to handle it? PLEASE!!!

Is she just ignorant of the law or is this made up, she told me to look up the law, can anyone tell me where I can quote her the law you are using?? So tired of this mess.

Is the $250 check a retainer for the attorney or money to pay the trustee?

Tell your attorney you want to amend your petition to exempt your pay and child support.

The court cost to amend a petition is under 50 dollars. Anything else is what your attorney is adding on top of that.

[mtbc]

The Federal child support exemption in (d)(10) at http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...2----000-.html appears to be permitted under http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/...n 201#0222.201 and wages are covered by http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/...ion 11#0222.11. Googling for "florida bankruptcy exemptions" seems to confirm this, as does page 326 of the 2010 Nolo chapter 7 book. I am in Massachusetts though so somebody with more local knowledge may be able to clarify.

It does seem that you may need to get a second opinion, though switching lawyer mid-stream can be non-trivial.

[justbroke]

Yes but the exemption is on the "right to receive" and for "need", not for child support payments just sitting in a banking account. I read these carefully before, and find no caselaw that says that they can't be considered income.

11 USC 522(d)(10) does not appear to exempt money already received because of the wording. I believe that caselaw would argue that (d)(10) covers only that amount which is reasonably necessary for the support of the debtor and dependents. Not amounts that were "saved".

[beachymama]

I don't understand everything I just read, but I can tell you that my bank statements do not show that the money has been sitting as savings for a long time building up. I have an every two weeks direct deposit and the monthly amounts vary as they are used monthly for the support of the children. I get $2100 a month and I only had one month in there. In the summer it goes quickly with summer camp activities.

Same thing with the paycheck. I pretty much spend my income monthly, some months more than others. I only had about one months pay sitting in there, not really a savings.

But I guess this may be a moot point, do I have a case at all to fight to exempt this? I don't feel comfortable putting this hearing in her hands but maybe I have no choice and I have to just give this stuff up and move on. I don't want to lose my cash, I cannot afford to.

[justbroke]

But I guess this may be a moot point, do I have a case at all to fight to exempt this? I don't feel comfortable putting this hearing in her hands but maybe I have no choice and I have to just give this stuff up and move on. I don't want to lose my cash, I cannot afford to.

I'm probably wrong, but from what I've read and from what I know, this is a State law issue, so you're right to ask about Florida specifically.

I think the key to it is the "reasonably necessary". If you haven't spent it yet, then it probably wasn't "necessary" for your support at that time. The reason doesn't appear simple, but Congress could have left the words "to the extent reasonably necessary" in order to cover it 100%, as they did in the other parts of 11 USC 522(d)(10).

I think you only need look to (d)(11) to see how it (d)(10) would have been written if it were for anything that came from support. For example, (d)(11) starts with "debtor's right to receive, or property that is traceable to"... which is a big difference. Right to receive means future, and traceable implies something that already occurred in the past.

I really, just don't know. You may have to just settle with the thoughts that your lawyer is probably right.