Trustee's motion for turnover of property

[beachymama]

My attorney said I don't have to go to the hearing on Friday but maybe I should go?

[justbroke]

What kind of representation? Bankruptcy attorney? Litigation attorney? I guess I was under the impression that the trustees negotiate. I don't understand how my furniture is worth almost $9000 when everything I read online says that the average home has $2-3000 in household goods.

If you want to fight, it would be a BK attorney. Your current attorney does not want to fight. If the Trustee thinks the furniture is worth $9K, then just give them the furniture, less the statutory amounts that you get to keep (either $1K or $5K depending on if you claimed or received the benefit of a homestead).

I just don't care anymore. It makes no sense to keep paying attorneys to keep furniture. It is just stuff.

Exactly. Just tell the Trustee to come and get it. I'm sure the Trustee will then try to offer you to just give them 50-75% for the stuff. I still wouldn't buy it from the Trustee. Make the Trustee "Eat Wood".

I think you are already reserved to make the Trustee come get the furniture.

[beachymama]

Means that she is not going to fight with the Trustee or even FOR you. Yes, your attorney is dumping you if you don't "stipulate" to the Trustee's wishes. That is just HARSH.

You should be on the phone to find new representation... tomorrow morning!

What kind of representation? Bankruptcy attorney? Litigation attorney? I guess I was under the impression that the trustees negotiate. I don't understand how my furniture is worth almost $9000 when everything I read online says that the average home has $2-3000 in household goods.

I just don't care anymore. It makes no sense to keep paying attorneys to keep furniture. It is just stuff.

[beachymama]

If I don't fight, what do they do? Remember I received the demand notice for my bank account, car, household goods and a vacant lot I own.

If I don't have an attorney anymore. Does this mean my bankruptcy is withdrawn and I have to start over?

[backtoschool]

My hearing is on Friday. I have no idea what this means. I paid my attorney $250 to negotiate I think, to get the $8900 value of my furniture reduced.

Today I received a letter from her that is confusing me, as again I have not heard anything from them in one month.

It reads that the negotiation with the Trustee has been handled. She understands that I am not satisfied with the appraisal. Please be advised that the appraiser is qualified, blah blah. If I so wish to litigate, we can request an evidentiary hearing at the hearing on Friday.

She says she spoke with the Trustee about my bank accounts and if I want to make a case to show that these accounts contained wage earnings and were not co-mingled, then she will present an offer to him tomorrow.

It continues saying that if I am not going to accept the stipulation, I respect your wishes and will enter a Motion to Withdraw so you can hire another attorney.

What the heck does this mean? I have emailed her and left messages. I have never seen any negotiation and I have not asked for a motion to withdraw anything - or should I?

Help!

Basically, it sounds like your lawyer was not successful in negotiating a lower appraisal of your furniture, and that the trustee wants proof that the money in your accounts was only child support money. It also sounds like both of these items will have to be settled in another hearing in front of the bankruptcy judge.

[justbroke]

Means that she is not going to fight with the Trustee or even FOR you. Yes, your attorney is dumping you if you don't "stipulate" to the Trustee's wishes. That is just HARSH.

You should be on the phone to find new representation... tomorrow morning!

[beachymama]

My hearing is on Friday. I have no idea what this means. I paid my attorney $250 to negotiate I think, to get the $8900 value of my furniture reduced.

Today I received a letter from her that is confusing me, as again I have not heard anything from them in one month.

It reads that the negotiation with the Trustee has been handled. She understands that I am not satisfied with the appraisal. Please be advised that the appraiser is qualified, blah blah. If I so wish to litigate, we can request an evidentiary hearing at the hearing on Friday.

She says she spoke with the Trustee about my bank accounts and if I want to make a case to show that these accounts contained wage earnings and were not co-mingled, then she will present an offer to him tomorrow.

It continues saying that if I am not going to accept the stipulation, I respect your wishes and will enter a Motion to Withdraw so you can hire another attorney.

What the heck does this mean? I have emailed her and left messages. I have never seen any negotiation and I have not asked for a motion to withdraw anything - or should I?

Help!

[justbroke]

The motion has been filed. The 707(b) meeting is being held on 3-26 with my attorny. He explained that we do not have to attend this meeting. Not sure what to think about that???

No you don't have to attend when you're represented by an attorney, unless you were called to testify. It doesn't appear that you are needed.

We had to submit all of our documentation again along with additional stuff. We are converting from a chapter 13 to a chapter 7. Do you think this has something to do with it? The reason for the convert is because of a change in income.

Yes, it probably has something to do with it.

Do you have any other info you can share?

Not really. If your lawyer is confident that he can have the UST's motion to dismiss or convert denied, then go with that!

[gunner01]

I am so sorry for not havnig answered this earlier. There are two different "Trustees" involved in your case. The panel trustee (which we commonly just call the "Trustee") is respnosible for administering your Estate. They are the person who you see (or are represented) at the 341 Meeting. They are the one that are trying to appraise your property.

The other "trustee" is the United States Trustee (UST). This person is the "legally" responsible person for your whole case. They determine whether your case is filed in bad faith and should be dismissed. They have to file a Motion , usually a 707(b) motion, in order to do that.

They are two different people, with two distinct jobs. One is to liquidate your estate (panel trustee), and the other to determine if you are entitled to discharge (UST).

If you are in fact challenging a 707(b) dismissal... what's going on with that? Did the UST actually file the motion or threatened to?

Hello Justbroke,

The motion has been filed. The 707(b) meeting is being held on 3-26 with my attorny. He explained that we do not have to attend this meeting. Not sure what to think about that??? We had to submit all of our documentation again along with additional stuff. We are converting from a chapter 13 to a chapter 7. Do you think this has something to do with it? The reason for the convert is because of a change in income.

Do you have any other info you can share? Please do

Gunner01

[justbroke]

I am so confused because she also filed a 707(b) motion. Why send an appraiser if you are trying to dismiss my case, convert it, or grant my 7

I am so sorry for not havnig answered this earlier. There are two different "Trustees" involved in your case. The panel trustee (which we commonly just call the "Trustee") is respnosible for administering your Estate. They are the person who you see (or are represented) at the 341 Meeting. They are the one that are trying to appraise your property.

The other "trustee" is the United States Trustee (UST). This person is the "legally" responsible person for your whole case. They determine whether your case is filed in bad faith and should be dismissed. They have to file a Motion , usually a 707(b) motion, in order to do that.

They are two different people, with two distinct jobs. One is to liquidate your estate (panel trustee), and the other to determine if you are entitled to discharge (UST).

If you are in fact challenging a 707(b) dismissal... what's going on with that? Did the UST actually file the motion or threatened to?

[gunner01]

I don't understand your question because the original poster is beachmamma, and my response was to her. The exemptions are State specific, so I can't quantify what you're asking. If you are in Florida, the additional amount is $4,000 and is granted to you from Florida Statue 222.25(4).

Hello Justbroke,

I am in Florida..Thank you for the fast reply, it is very helpful.

[justbroke]

What is the additional dollar amount in the "wildcard" since I am not keeping the house?

I don't understand your question because the original poster is beachmamma, and my response was to her. The exemptions are State specific, so I can't quantify what you're asking. If you are in Florida, the additional amount is $4,000 and is granted to you from Florida Statute 222.25(4).

[gunner01]

Strange the Trustee is asking for Turnover without previously having filed an Objection To Exemptions. I think the Objection is required first, to establish that your exemptions are bunk.

You should work with your attorney to fight this, if the Trustee is misapplying your exemptions. You first need a ruling on the exemptions before the Trustee can even think about requesting turnover on items that you exempted?

If you filed pro se, looks like you did some things wrong and you still need to challenge the Exemptions and update your Schedule "C" items. Also, you may have overvalued some things. In any event, reads like you're in Florida and some Trustees are known to quickly attack assets because of teh extremely low $1,000 wildcard for all "household goods" (unless you don't have a home or are surrendering it).

As an aside... unless this motion is a Motion for Turnover and Objection to Exemptions. If it's an objection to exemptions, I personally feel that the Trustee is too late, as there is a bar date for filing an objection to exemptions. The bar date for filing an objection to claim of exemptions is 30 days after the concluded 341 Meeting of Creditors. If the Trustee is just getting to this, something is really wrong. Or, did the Trustee file an objection to exemptions and prevailed?

If you filed pro se and the Trustee never filed any objection to exemptions, your affirmative defense in this Motion to Turnover is that the Trustee failed to bring forth an action challenging the use of the Exemptions within the time period permitted under FRBP 4003.

(Note: that there is an exception where the Trustee can claim an objection to exemption within one year of closing, if there is actual fraud.)

What is the additional dollar amount in the "wildcard" since I am not keeping the house?

[beachymama]

Did the trustee send an appraiser to your house? What kind of dollar value did they place on your non exept assets?

Yes, the trustee did not tell me at the 341 that he was going to send an appraiser out. At the 341 in September, he asked me about my vehicle and did I put any money down. I said no. He asked me if I sold any assets within the past two years. I told him some land and a timeshare (2008). He asked me if I put any money down on my houses (I have two). I said 20% down each.

I checked PACER and saw that he objected to my exemptions in October. Then the trustee paid himself money to hire an appraiser to value my stuff. She came in December. She was here about an hour to hour and a-half. She asked me only about electronics. I gave her the age of my computers, laptops and TVs. She asked if she could look in my kitchen cabinets after asking about china or silver, etc. I said I had none and she could look. She asked about jewelry, I told her I had costume stuff, very little to no gold or silver. She looked in my garage and my back deck, etc.

In my BK filing, I put down $1000 or so to exempt my personal household property using garage sale prices, like $5.00 lamp, $50 sofa, $20 dresser, etc on my BK papers.

The appraiser appraised lamps $20, sofa $150, $400 headboard, footboard, queen sized mattress/boxspring, $200 for rug, bird cage and lamp, $350 for the stove in my kitchen that came with the house in 2005 (not even stainless, it is black), $460 for the 2004 G3 iMac computer (pre-Intel chip!).

Needless to say, I don't understand this. Why should I value at garage sale prices when the Trustee gets an appraiser to inflate prices? Well, of course he wants me to buy my furniture back using these inflated prices and he gets paid 25% of whatever the appraiser gets.

This is common with the Ft. Myers trustees evidently and this is sad. But you know, they can have my furniture. It will save me the $7000 to move it to wherever I may land after my job ends in June.

I did pay my attorney $250 to appeal the valuation (I think that is what I am paying her for). The hearing is next week on the 26th.

Hope this helps!

[gunner01]

gunner01... who are you asking that question? For what it's worth, no appraiser came to my home and the value of my personal belonging was listed at $4,700.

It was for beachymama.. I am sorry but, I am new to this hole forum posting thing. I wish I was so lucky.. The trustee on my case is known for sending an appraiser out. I would love to know what kind of value that find in used furniture and house hold stuff.