Taking 'property' form house when leaving

[cory1848]

Thanks for the reply, I just do not want to get sued so I am nervous. There were zero appliances when we bought the home. I wasn't sure if they were allowed to come look at the home for the sheriff sale. There is some damages to the home like a messed up wall from the shower leaking and I do not want to get hit with fixing it.

I think the banks that sue are going after malicious damage. Down here there are homes with all of the copper plumbing stripped out and sold for cash, kitchens gutted, wood floors ripped up, AC units sold for scrap, electrical ripped out, homes flooded, all to "get back" at the mortgage company. Those people think that if they can't keep it, no one can keep it. Those people deserve the lawsuits. I really wouldn't worry about appliances or a few ceiling fans or a leaking shower. Just don't trash the place.

[adviceplease]

Thanks for the reply, I just do not want to get sued so I am nervous. There were zero appliances when we bought the home. I wasn't sure if they were allowed to come look at the home for the sheriff sale. There is some damages to the home like a messed up wall from the shower leaking and I do not want to get hit with fixing it.

[AngelinaCat]

Cory is correct. You can take what you put in. If you replaced a cheap or non-existent ceiling light with a nice fan assembly, take your fan and replace with a cheap light. If your house came with appliances, then you must leave them. If at any time you replaced one or another, then you can take your appliance, but really should locate an inexpensive functional unit on Craig's List, or second-hand store and leave that.

But tubs, sinks, counters, cabinet, etc., stay with the house.

Good luck to you!

[cory1848]

I am pretty confused. If we are forclosed on can we take our non-built in appliances? They were purchased by us, there was none in the home when we moved in. Also can we take down our expensive fans and replace them with just light sockets since we bought them? Is this suppose to be before the sheriff sale, and at some point are they allowed to come look around the house?

In my opinion, if it wasn't part of the deal when you originally bought the place, then I would take it when I leave. Like I mentioned, I had a stove, fridge and dishwasher when I moved in. Those were included in the purchase of the home. I have since replaced those with much nicer appliances. Why should the bank get them? Simply, they won't. They will get comparable appliances that I got with the house when I bought it.

If I had to replace my AC unit, they would stay since there was AC when I bought the place, however, if I put one in when there wasn't one to begin with, I wouldn't have an issue taking that with me.

Light fixtures I would take if they cost a lot. Replace with the cheapest ones you can find.

The banks don't really care. They hire companies to go through FC homes and strip them of appliances and whatever personal stuff is left to sell at auction. I have a friend who does this full time. They sell off the valuable stuff and the company takes their percentage.

The banks don't have morals so I won't lose any sleep over taking something that they have no idea is even there.

They are only allowed to come in to look around if you let them. Personally, I wouldn't.

[adviceplease]

I am pretty confused. If we are forclosed on can we take our non-built in appliances? They were purchased by us, there was none in the home when we moved in. Also can we take down our expensive fans and replace them with just light sockets since we bought them? Is this suppose to be before the sheriff sale, and at some point are they allowed to come look around the house?

[dman]

I realize thieves are in their hey-day, but with a new start, would anyone really wish to join the ranks of another thief? I hope not. 'Hub

I wasn't speaking to the morality of it, just legalities. And it can vary from state to state, district to district, etc. But it may be best to boil down what I said to this:

It may or may not be legal to take items that are part of the house while the deed is in your name. It most definitely is NOT legal to take said items once the deed is in someone else's name (i.e. the bank's). It is almost definitely legal to take items that did not come with the house and are not permanently attached (i.e. appliances, stand alone shed, above ground pool, etc.). And of course, always double-check with your lawyer first.

As far as morality...would it be acceptable if you took some fixtures from the house while it was still yours (worth in the hundreds or so) and leave behind major improvements that are not affixed (i.e. propane tank, shed, etc.)? If you're ok with it morally, and legally it's fine, I guess it'd be ok.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Huge disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer!

While the house is still yours (i.e. until the sheriff's sale), then it's yours. There's a good chance you can take whatever you want and get away with it. A potential issue would be if the bank gets the house, then files an insurance claim for the damages; could turn into a case of technical insurance fraud (kinda like if you burn the house down, but admit to it...if you had it insured, it could turn into a problem). This may vary from state to state, may not be actually legal, etc. etc. But...one thing I've heard is...what if you were in the middle of a renovation? Then you had to file bankruptcy? Would you be liable for the unfinished work?

That said, once the house is out of your name (i.e. the bank buys it back), then it most definitely would be vandalism/theft/etc. if you take anything that was affixed to the house. Now, you could still take anything that you bought and paid for separately (i.e., if appliances didn't come with the house, then you can take 'em; if you installed a whole house generator after you bought the house, you can take it; if you installed a propane tank, it's yours). Bonus points if you have receipts for the items you bought separately (i.e. you bought the house in May 2000, and have a receipt for the propane tank for November 2000). Oh...and one more huge disclaimer...if you remove something like a propane tank, GET A PROFESSIONAL!

dman, your theory was addressed by a real lawyer. Des is a lawyer. Here is a recap not to become repetitive: Albeit you are on the deed as owner, true. However the lender has a "vested interest" in the house and until it is paid for 100%, his interest is protected by law. This is why the Mortgage is called "secured", as the security (house) is the chattel that guarantees the mortgage.

Case in point, you are "required" to have insurance on the house as long as you have a mortgage. I know of no bank that would not insist on this. It protects them as well as you. Once you file BK, the house belongs to the BK estate NOT YOU. It is your choice to bk so you are legally bound to that fact.

If you pay and secure a "Release of Lien" for your house it is your choice to insure it or not. You can (with permits) raze the house if you wished. You could burn it piece by piece if you wish.

We are dealing with two things here. The legality of disassembling what is not yours (as in not free and clear) as well as the morality of doing so. As Des and other have said anything attached to a house is an "improvement" to the structure in the most legal way. If an item is taken such as "grandmother's mirror" or other personal item built in, a like and usable replacement would certainly not equate to pilfering the place. Ripping out the Central Air in any case would not be a permissible action under any circumstances.

I realize thieves are in their hey-day, but with a new start, would anyone really wish to join the ranks of another thief? I hope not. 'Hub

[tobee43]

I have read the goods and the bads on this very informative thread. Here is my opinion and only MY opinion in which to date I have a right to state: Those who rape the houses that they lived in, for value they think they are entitled to, must live with themselves. Because a person spends money on an item to improve their lives such as Central Air, does not mean because you purchased it, affixed it to a home to improve your life, that ruining that home is right to do. Same with cabinets and appliances legally attached to the home, as HHM stated.

A new start means an honest start. Due to our system as set out in the beginning of our Country, a Christian/Judeo Country, and it's rule of law, allows us all a new start when we mess up, or circumstances mess us up. Why would anyone want more than to just get out and let the real thieves have that copper crap?

Have you learned what "Character" is? It is doing the right thing, when no one else is looking. Try that some time my friends, who wish to prosper in their Chapter 7 by stealing the estate. Remember, Karma. What you do now will come around in the same proportions to you. 'Hub

so true. although, i must tell you, we didn't feel badly when had the state botanical gardens pulled up many of the rare tree cultivators we had, and donated them to the state. i knew the next owner wouldn't know an elm from a variegated Alaskan acer..but earth and plant people certainly would. most likely someone from the city would buy the house and just cut them all down. the state was so happy to receive them as they were really treasures, and since we all lived in the woods most people don't know one tree or bush from another.

it was a great experience for us, that states botanial gardens now has a section donationed with our names and my most loved trees will live on forever. ( i love my trees, plants, gardens it was over 30 years in the making of those gardens) that was the worse part of leaving the old place. but, now knowing i can always go back and see things we had shipped in from all over the world still being loved and admired like we did, just feels darn good.

and each tree that was pulled up the state put back a "common" so nothing looked out of place.

drowning you're so right...the cleaning and scrubbing of the place actually felt good. i look at the pictures of the house when we left and it was spottness, minus the stove and frig, which it didn't come with anyway.

[dman]

Huge disclaimer, I'm not a lawyer!

While the house is still yours (i.e. until the sheriff's sale), then it's yours. There's a good chance you can take whatever you want and get away with it. A potential issue would be if the bank gets the house, then files an insurance claim for the damages; could turn into a case of technical insurance fraud (kinda like if you burn the house down, but admit to it...if you had it insured, it could turn into a problem). This may vary from state to state, may not be actually legal, etc. etc. But...one thing I've heard is...what if you were in the middle of a renovation? Then you had to file bankruptcy? Would you be liable for the unfinished work?

That said, once the house is out of your name (i.e. the bank buys it back), then it most definitely would be vandalism/theft/etc. if you take anything that was affixed to the house. Now, you could still take anything that you bought and paid for separately (i.e., if appliances didn't come with the house, then you can take 'em; if you installed a whole house generator after you bought the house, you can take it; if you installed a propane tank, it's yours). Bonus points if you have receipts for the items you bought separately (i.e. you bought the house in May 2000, and have a receipt for the propane tank for November 2000). Oh...and one more huge disclaimer...if you remove something like a propane tank, GET A PROFESSIONAL!

[ValleYum]

When we leave our house, I plan to take the refrigerator (we traded the previous owner for the fridge outside of the mortgage) as some rentals don't include refrigerators and if they do, having a second fridge would be handy for keeping soda cold and for holidays and houseguests.

I plan to un-hang my grandmother's mirror from my powder room. I will buy a replacement mirror at Wal-Mart or Goodwill to hang in there.

I do plan to remove the flat-screen mount from our bedroom wall since we hung it there and paid for it.

I don't plan on removing my central a/c unit (although we paid cash for it outside the mortgage) - I think the cost to have it professionally uninstalled would be prohibitive.

[drowning123]

Simply stated - it just doesn't feel right. Cleaning is actually good. It's like getting rid of the past and welcoming the new debt-free future. I do understand your argument for taking the stuff, but I don't agree with it. Don't hang on to the past.

[DesdemonaB]

I was informed in late July my landlord is looking to downsize and moving back to their condo would be the perfect solution. They informed me that they will be going month to month on their current lease forcing me into a month to month on my. They will first try to find a home to purchase but if they can not find one in their time frame they will move back, leaving me with finding a new place to live.

With my recent discharge I know that I will not qualify for a mortgage anytime soon, so my mother has agreed to help by purchasing a home and enter into a land contract with me allowing me that count down time I need before I can apply of the loan. So for the last two weeks I have been searching realtor.com and last week I called on 6 properties, all foreclosures, 5 of the 6 properties were so gutted, trashed or damaged that they were cash only or financed via a 203K only.

I am not someone looking to rehab a home and flip it for profit, I am single parent who wants to put a roof over the heads of her kids. Is it too much to ask that you not take your angry out the next person looking to become homeowner?

Oh and while you are ripping apart that home ponder this: there is a min of a three year wait before you can apply of a FHA load - and correct me if I am wrong but that 3-year window starts from the date your name is off the title of your foreclosed home. The home that can't sell because you felt you were "owned" something so you trashed/gutted/destroyed/sold everything in the home.

I know not every homeowner trashes their foreclosures, but those who do/did I just think you don't have anything to be proud of.

[AngelinaCatHub]

I have read the goods and the bads on this very informative thread. Here is my opinion and only MY opinion in which to date I have a right to state: Those who rape the houses that they lived in, for value they think they are entitled to, must live with themselves. Because a person spends money on an item to improve their lives such as Central Air, does not mean because you purchased it, affixed it to a home to improve your life, that ruining that home is right to do. Same with cabinets and appliances legally attached to the home, as HHM stated.

A new start means an honest start. Due to our system as set out in the beginning of our Country, a Christian/Judeo Country, and it's rule of law, allows us all a new start when we mess up, or circumstances mess us up. Why would anyone want more than to just get out and let the real thieves have that copper crap?

Have you learned what "Character" is? It is doing the right thing, when no one else is looking. Try that some time my friends, who wish to prosper in their Chapter 7 by stealing the estate. Remember, Karma. What you do now will come around in the same proportions to you. 'Hub

[cory1848]

I plan on taking my appliances but I will replace them with "Stand ins" when I leave. Plenty of used crap on craigslist that is free for the taking if you offer to haul it away. Those make nice hole fillers. Then just say... "They worked when I left...."

My cabinets are coming with me as well. I had replaced the originals and kept them to use in the garage. When we do leave, I will put them back in the kitchen and take the good ones with us. I installed the good ones and I could have been down in about a half hour. Carpet and floors can all stay, I dont care about that anymore.

[HHM]

Everything we took, we installed and payed for. House was a foreclosure when we purchased it. And there is no lowering of the property values, We lived out in the country on acreage. You could barely even see our house from the road. None of it matters, I was told that a week after the mortgage company supposedly secured the house squatters broke in, Lived there for about a week, vandalized everything and tore bunch of the plumbing and copper out of the walls.

It really just depends on the particulars. Generally, even if YOU were the one that afixed the item to the property, that item becomes part of the property in a pure legal sense. Will you have issues in the future, probably not. Strictly speaking, anything that is nailed, glued, or screwed to the home in some way becomes a fixture of the real property and loses its status as personal property. So removing things like sinks, vanities, or items required to make the house habital is problematic. Appliances are usually okay to remove, but cabinets, countertops, sinks etc., ususally not okay. Sheds: same issue, if affixed to a slab, not okay, if not and it is some sort of pre-fab builiding, it probably can be removed without consequence.

But there are grey areas: e.g. flat panel TV...is the wall mounted stand a fixture, probably not...it would be considered more like art work and can be removed.