BK didn't discharge due to attorney not turning in a document

[Shalynn]

My Bankruptcy had been smooth sailing up until this point. I'll try to make a long story short. I took my predischarge class on September 18. The place where I took the class from emailed them my certificate on that same day.

I assumed my attorney had the certificate (yes I should have double checked with them...MS cog problems mest me up big time this time). But, I feel as if they should have had some sort of checklist before the discharge. I am paying them big bucks to make sure everything is getting done correctly, right?

Before I got sick, I was a Realtor. I had a checklist of documents that I needed to make sure we had before we could close successfully. I felt as if that was part of what my clients were paying me for.

I had to pay 260 bucks for them to have them reopen my case (they said it should close the same day). I have a big problem paying this. Partly because I don't have the money to do so, and partly because I feel as if my attorney (rather his assistant) was in error. Of course, it's no skin off their back if it gets paid or not, they already got their 1200 bucks.

I asked them if they would pay for it, or at least go halves with me, but I haven't received a response. The assistant/secretary said they had 100's of clients and couldn't possibly keep track of those things. Makes me feel small.

So, what's your opinion? I know I cannot make them pay. And, for my own peace of mind I may just have to let it go.

Thanks for any input.

[demismom]

That REALLY bites, but in this case, I'd chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned. I'd also complain to the bar association or whatever it is that takes complaints about attorneys in your state. That's just pure bull as far as I'm concerned. THEY know what needs to be filed when, that's why THEY'RE the Attorneys.

[Shalynn]

That REALLY bites, but in this case, I'd chalk it up to an expensive lesson learned. I'd also complain to the bar association or whatever it is that takes complaints about attorneys in your state. That's just pure bull as far as I'm concerned. THEY know what needs to be filed when, that's why THEY'RE the Attorneys.

The bad thing about all of this is that I have connections to this attorney (hard to explain). You'd think he'd try a little harder to make sure I was happy.

I hadn't thought about filing a formal complaint. I do know that I was partially to blame, but I still feel as if he should be held partially responsible too. I have four lawyers in my family (all in-laws, none are my attorney though)...I might mention it to them when I see them over the holidays.

Thanks for your input. I really appreciate it. I'm never afraid too admit when I screw things up, it's ashame others aren't too.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

The bad thing about all of this is that I have connections to this attorney (hard to explain). You'd think he'd try a little harder to make sure I was happy.

I hadn't thought about filing a formal complaint. I do know that I was partially to blame, but I still feel as if he should be held partially responsible too. I have four lawyers in my family (all in-laws, none are my attorney though)...I might mention it to them when I see them over the holidays.

Shalynn, I appreciate your point of view as a professional who took responsibility seriously and expects others to as well, and I understand why you might feel it was partially your fault, because you knew and maybe could have reminded him, or something along those lines. I just can't agree. At all.

See, they can't have it both ways. They cannot treat the practice of law as an inapproachable science that the layman couldn't possibly understand, and then lay their negligence in practicing it according to the dictates of their own profession (the Rules of Professional Conduct set by each state's Bar Association) squarely at your feet.

If you look carefully at the forms, you see several places that your attorney has to sign: your attorney literally stands in your place and acts on your behalf. You can help keep track of him -- IF you have the knowledge -- but in general when you have an attorney you can't act for yourself. Everything goes through him, even those things you think you could take care of. Your atty dropped the ball. It was 100% his responsibility to get that form filed. You took the class (probably through his office, which means he may have even seen part of that fee as well) in a timely fashion, and the form was sent to him to file. He pays staff to ensure these things get done as well; it's not like he doesn't know why God made paralegals and never laid eyes on one before. On top of that, your attorney very likely uses software to electronically file your forms, and manage your case: if so, someone somewhere got a reminder that your debt ed certificate was due. At the VERY least, they would have seen the flag in PACER when they viewed your case.

So obviously, my opinion is that this negligence is 100% on him.

I would love to hear what your attorney family members have to say about this!

There's something else I'd like to point out that's not very nice, but may be a strong factor in the way this situation is unfolding for you. Where you see that your connections to this attorney should help him to treat you better, this attorney may very well see those same connections as the exact reason why you won't complain about his negligence (i.e. you're a good person and don't want to be responsible for "harming" the relationships involved, or "hurt" him over what is really only very minor [to him] after all) and thus these very connections may be much more of a protective factor for him in this situation than they are for you.

This is just my opinion, but I really think you should consider filing a complaint with your state's bar association. I think it would do your attorney a world of good to get the slap on the wrist and remind him of his fiduciary responsibility to his clients. He won't lose his license -- far from it! -- but you would be doing yourself and those behind you a favor by helping him to feel your pain. At least that is my thought on it.

Sorry for the rant; I've just heard too many atty horror stories to feel much pity for him. Also, I hope you feel better; I don't have MS but I am all to well aware of what it is to deal with huge gaping holes in what was once a sturdy and reliable memory: oh how that sucks. Good luck!

[lrprn]

I hadn't thought about filing a formal complaint.

First you should talk with your lawyer and ask him/her to justify why you are being charged to correct a mistake that their office made.

If the lawyer refuses to drop the charge, then here's where you can file a complaint by state - http://www.nbtanet.org/public/discipline/index.shtml

Scroll down or select your state from the drop-down list. They will be interested in the facts of the case - a short summary of the pertinent points of your case and the dates.

IMHO, the lawyer shouldn't be charging you to correct a mistake the office made. And that's the complaint you should lodge.

[bezoar]

That stinks. The reason one hires an attorney is just so this kind of thing doesn't happen. Dunno what to tell you, but I might go ahead & pay to get it done, along with a letter of "protest" (very MILDLY worded, but factual). I'd follow that (AFTER discharge) with a complaint to bar with all the facts. Get that discharge, though!

Glad I had a good one! There are a lot of stinkers out there, so it would seem.

[genseeker]

I agree about filing a complaint. I too have a disability that can affect memory and I filed our case Pro Se. If your atty was aware of your disability and how it affects you, then I feel he has a responsibility in your case to make sure everything is filed properly, especially since you are not in as good a position as someone w/o memory issues to help keep track of your case. I kept a page hanging by my computer with a checklist of everything needed and wrote deadlines and everything down. And I looked it over daily, I wish we could have afforded an atty to do all this. My hubby and shrink said I was borderline OCD on the issue of our finances and it certainly was true for our BK.

[325Falcon]

The attorney should own this mistake!!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

I agree about filing a complaint. I too have a disability that can affect memory and I filed our case Pro Se. ....My hubby and shrink said I was borderline OCD on the issue of our finances and it certainly was true for our BK.

LOL! That sounds *exactly* like me. I can't trust my memory, so I have to rely on checklist after checklist, and I don't mind admitting that YES, I am obsessive about it. I'm starting to lighten up some because everything but everything is filed, sent, and otherwise clear until the 341, but I could still obsess at a moment's notice.

It's not quite that bad yet, but I could do like that guy in Memento... except I think I'd keep my notes covered by clothing, thanks.

[DebtSlave]

That was generous of you to offer to own 50% of the attorney mistake.
I feel bad about that situation for you.
Especially because today I realized after 2 years that one Credit Union was not listed on my claim sheet. I contacted them personally with a return receipt letter indicating my intentions to file Ch 13. Asked them to cease the withholding of 265.00 per month...which they did. Two times I contacted them and sent my attorney's business card. They never filed a claim. They said they were waiting to the courts to contact them. I wonder if they will sue me in civil court for the 10K after discharge. Or will they hold up discharge.?
I filed old law in OCT'05 and the lawyers office was swamped ..I caught a few things and he amended the plan before submission. But I must agree with you...why do we have to do other people work for them especially "professionals". Burns me up. I work very hard to be conscientious at the office and managed to be good at my job even after a closed head injury in the year 2000.....my personal life suffered as a result and that is how I got in this jam to begin with. I hope someone offers you some good advice....personally I would bug the atty until he agrees to eat the fee ! If he doesn't report him. He will not loose his license...........but may be slightly disenchanted with you...tough beans ! Good luck !

[Shalynn]

Thank you everyone. You've really given me a lot to think about.
I called and left a message with the attorney's office yesterday asking if they'd refiled my bk.

After I posted this thread, I thought of more things this legal secretary has done (or not done) that just aren't right.

A few months ago I asked her to send me a copy of my records. I wanted to see exactly which creditors I filed with and for how much (although I have a pretty good idea). I've never seen that.

Also, she has on several occasions told me she called me but couldn't reach me. Which is BS we have caller ID and voice mail (plus I have a cell phone with VM). I have never seen a call from their office. She also told me she mailed me a letter, this was last week (I've never received it).

I think most of the incompetence lies with her. I don't want to bad mouth her to the attorney, but he needs to know what she's doing. Of course, it will be my word against hers.

I sent him an Email last week when this all started. I haven't heard back. So, now I'm sending him a letter. I've also asked for him to call me back, and to possibly have a sit down appointment with him (and my husband). I filed alone (long story, but it's worked for us). I hate to say this but having my DH go with me to see him might just be what it takes to get this resolved.

Thanks again. I'll try to get back here in the next few days to let you know how things are going. Also, I'd like to comment on a few of the posts.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

BTW, don't let him hide behind her skirts: it is encumbent upon any attorney who hires staff to hold them to the same professional and ethical standards to which HE is held as an attorney... and yes, he knows this. "My paralegal did this all behind my back" might fly with an uninformed client, but it would *never* fly with a judge in a disciplinary hearing, so don't let him waste your time with that.

That, and you might want to begin keeping an informal log of when you called, the person with whom you spoke, and what transpired. What has already happened piece together from your notes, emails, cell phones, etc. as best you can. You'll find it worth your while, because that moves it away from he-said she-said territory and may encourage your attorney to resolve this on his own without forcing you to take it further.

Good luck!!! I can't wait to hear how this turns out for you!