List all creditors

[keepmine]

This lady got a nasty surprise.

http://mcleodlawoffices.com/2008/04/not_huge_and_very_stupid_a_discharge_is_denied.html

[danaf]

thanks for posting. good read and informative.

[schel]

So even if the balance is zero, list it?
Schel

[keepmine]

No, if you have a zero balance no need to list the creditor. Look at the first few sentences. You have to list all your debts.

[schel]

No, if you have a zero balance no need to list the creditor. Look at the first few sentences. You have to list all your debts.

Thank you. I am not very knowledgeable about all this. Thats why I asked the question. As we say in nursing... "I needed clarity." If am in question on an issue, I do not know unless I ask.

Schel

[Flamingo]

No, if you have a zero balance no need to list the creditor. Look at the first few sentences. You have to list all your debts.

Great posting but we had zero balances on two credit cards at filing and we were required to list those creditors, even though they had zero balances. We had to list ALL creditors with which we had accounts. I questioned that and was advised by the attorney that it is a requirement and those creditors will not be included in the filing; if the cards survive the bankruptcy that would eventually be on our credit reports, we could keep those cards. Now, what occurred with us may not occur with others but it did occur.

The best thing to do is to always ask your attorney and comply with what is asked for.

[schel]

Great posting but we had zero balances on two credit cards at filing and we were required to list those creditors, even though they had zero balances. We had to list ALL creditors with which we had accounts. I questioned that and was advised by the attorney that it is a requirement and those creditors will not be included in the filing; if the cards survive the bankruptcy that would eventually be on our credit reports, we could keep those cards. Now, what occurred with us may not occur with others but it did occur.

The best thing to do is to always ask your attorney and comply with what is asked for.

Thank you for your honesty and kind answer.
So were you able to keep those cards or did they close?
I agree I will ask our attourney.
Schel

[Flamingo]

Thank you for your honesty and kind answer.
So were you able to keep those cards or did they close?
I agree I will ask our attourney.
Schel

The two cards survived the BK, were never closed out and we still have them to this day.

[HHM]

Nice news post.

As for the zero balance issue...a creditor is only someone to whom you "actually" owe money. If you don't owe a credit card money (i.e. a zero balance) they are not a creditor, in the strict sense.

[Flamingo]

Nice news post.

As for the zero balance issue...a creditor is only someone to whom you "actually" owe money. If you don't owe a credit card money (i.e. a zero balance) they are not a creditor, in the strict sense.

Depends and arguable from a legal standpoint. A creditor can be deemed as an entity to which one has a signed contract that may result in future debt owned (i.e., contract between XXXX bank ["Creditor"] and John and Jane Doe ["Debtors" or "Payors"] and no balance is yet owed or just as an entity that can extend credit (i.e., brand new credit card, home equity line of credit not yet used, etc.). So if you are instructed to list all "creditors" and also advised to include those with which you have a zero balance, it's best to comply. The trustee may have an interest in the unused amount of credit on any cards left open that might be available to the person(s) filing in case the filers may run up additional debt after filing BK.

[HHM]

Fine Flamingo, if you want to get technical, and be proven wrong, yet again (hopefully you have a sense of humor).

Section 101(10) defines a creditor as

"(A) Entity that has a claim against the debtor that arose at the time of or before the order for relief concerning the debtor..."

And, as I am sure your next question will be...

Section 101(5) defines a claim as...

"(A) right to payment, whether or not such right is reduced to judgment, liquidated, unliquidated, fixed, contingent, matured, unmatured, disputed, undisputed, legal, equitable, secured, or unsecured..."

Translation, A creditor, for BK purposes, is someone who "actually" can "claim" something is owed to them by the debtor. Thus, a credit card with a ZERO balance at the time of filing has no claim against the debtor, hence, that credit card is not a creditor for BK purposes.

[Flamingo]

Fine Flamingo, if you want to get technical, and be proven wrong, yet again (hopefully you have a sense of humor).

Section 101(10) defines a creditor as

"(A) Entity that has a claim against the debtor that arose at the time of or before the order for relief concerning the debtor..."

And, as I am sure your next question will be...

Section 101(5) defines a claim as...

"(A) right to payment, whether or not such right is reduced to judgment, liquidated, unliquidated, fixed, contingent, matured, unmatured, disputed, undisputed, legal, equitable, secured, or unsecured..."

Translation, A creditor, for BK purposes, is someone who "actually" can "claim" something is owed to them by the debtor. Thus, a credit card with a ZERO balance at the time of filing has no claim against the debtor, hence, that credit card is not a creditor for BK purposes.

I am not arguing your definition of creditor (although there are several that can apply), it doesn't matter if you are instructed to list "creditors" with zero balances on your BK paperwork, required by your trustee. I am not trying to start an issue or prove anyone wrong, I believe one should comply with what is asked for if that should arise and I would not argue the point since, as I mentioned, the trustee may be interested on unused credit balances available to the future filers. Creditors can also be referred to as "lenders" in some contracts and I believe the more information given out as to a point such as this is beneficial to all so if the issue arises, one can ask their attorney as to what they should specifically do and what is required as to their listing. Remember, as I stated, we had to list ours and it was specifically stated on our paperwork.

And, yes, I have a marvelous sense of humor but you need to remember I've worked in the legal world for years and approach things from a legal standpoint and things don't always stand in black and white in specific terms as we all find out. And we all get proven wrong on here with lots of things. Who cares as long as we all end up learning, bringing out the points, providing experiences and sharing ideas?

[HHM]

Ok...but if someone asks the specific question, do you need to list a credit card with a zero balance, based on the way the BANKRUPTCY CODE defines creditors and claims, the answer is NO.

Granted, it is always sound advice to list anyone you could conceivably owe money too, and I think many attorneys take the conservative approach and simply say, list ALL Creditor regardless of balance. The main reasons being is to make the BK as least complicated as possible. It is much easier to tell someone, LIST ALL CREDITORS (there is no ambiguity that could confuse a debtor), than it is to say, LIST ALL CREDITOR except...

But, under the BK code, you do not need to list people or companies to which you DO NOT OWE money or otherwise have an "actual" claim.

There are certainly areas of the BK code and law in general that have grey areas, but this specific issue is not one of them.

[tay666]

Looks to me that this was a requirement of your attourney, not the BK court.

We had to list ALL creditors with which we had accounts. I questioned that and was advised by the attorney that it is a requirement and those creditors will not be included in the filing;

Specifically the part where it says that "those creditors will not be included in the filing"

So, were they on the actual BK paperwork that was filed with the court?
Or were they just on the credit matrix that you gave your lawyer?

[Cali]

Our attorney said we didn't have to list accounts with zero balances.