Financial blues and depression

[southernbelle]

I am a self proclaimed worrier. I stress myself out about literally everything. I guess because I don't have anyone to talk to and have so many financial problems that I get sick thinking about it.

I've become withdrawn at my jobs and don't feel the energy to do anything when I get home. I think I am getting more and more depressed as time goes on and I don't have anyone to talk to about it. I used to have an outgoing personality, but these days, I have little or nothing to say to people unless I have to. I've become a hermit at home and don't want to check the mailbox most days and cringe when I check PACER for fear of bad news.

My troubles with taxes have me extremely worried because I've met with several BK attys including my own and no one seems to know definitively how to handle my situation. The "lets try it and see what happens" attitude worries me because I can't afford to have another BK on my credit if it's just going to get dismissed. I'm considering other alternatives for solving my problems, but there's no clear cut answer or any really solid advice to follow. I even contacted the Chapter 13 Trustee's office for a referral or suggestions and got nothing.

I don't fault anyone but myself, but just need guidance and don't know what to do. I'm at my wits end. I'm considering an OIC, but I read somewhere that if it's not accepted, it basically gives the IRS all of the information they need to seize my stuff. Great, that's just what I need. I've been told to try and OIC anyway because the total tax and accumulating interest would be impossible for me to pay. Let's not forget the tax lien issue.

Since I've seemed to royally screw up my life this much so far by marrying the wrong man and I'm afraid that I'll make another bad decision and will end up further in the hole. I'm sinking further into depression everyday and don't know what to do.

It's obvious to my coworkers that there's something wrong, but I'd die before confiding in any of them because they only care about the latest gossip and how fast they can spread it. I'm getting to the point where I want to just give up.

Sorry to vent, but I feel pretty hopeless right now.

[Mom2one]

((((Southernbelle)))))))

Hugs from me, I have worried myself sick, I have become a hermit, I don't work I am a SAHM. I cry at the drop of a hat. We never thought we would be inthis position. And I am afraid of everything associated with this bankruptcy.

I finally confided in 3 of my friends, they do not live near me but have been very supportive.


Please try not to worry.

Christine

[more$moreProbs]

I can't express enough how much I relate to you. I'm sure many if not all have gone through the same symptoms you are going through. There's not a single minute I don't think about this situation and how hard I am on myself for coming to such a place. This has by far been the most disappointing time of my life where I feel like a complete fool.

It too has affected my job, my child and my marriage. I'm not as in tune with my responsibilities and my health. Its very difficult to concentrate on work yet alone try to workout or run my business. I've been gaining weight and I know I've lost a lot of patience with those around me. I feel like I can't project anything positive therefore everything around me gets negatively affected. I feel like I've failed my family and their future. I know money isn't everything but it sure does help when your kids are ready to go to college or you want to buy a home, etc.

It's very difficult when you can't confide in anyone about it. My husband has been taking it well so far but he's the type to realize his decisions after they are made. Anyhow, the point I wanted to make...

Please know we understand where you are coming from and are here to help you as much as we possibly can. Take care...

[gymbo]

Totally Understand

Southern Belle, I totally understand what you are going through. I am to the point that opening the mail or logging on to my computer make me sick to my stomach - I have always been a happy outgoing person but I got to the point that I did not even enjoy doing the things I love most - thats when I realized something has got to give.

I have not filed yet, but knowing it is an option, and accepting it does not make me a failure has helped tremendously.

Reading on this site is also very therapeutic. Makes you realize you are not alone (and some people are much worse off).

Keep your head up. You seem like a very nice person. This cloud will pass.

[CindyLou]

Southernbelle,

Have you explore the innocent or injured spouse route?? I don't really know any information about this, but I have heard it mentioned. Didn't your exspunse actually incur these taxes without you knowlege?

[One Half Full]

I can't comment on the Tax situation, except to say find a lawyer who knows your problem. You do not want to be some first time lawyer's experimental guinea pig.

I spent much of last year under the bed covers feeling depressed. I can vouch for the feelings of inadequacy, and of victimization. Unfortunately, I started to look at the reality of it. I am my only Hero, or savior here. The outcome really depends on my, my actions and reactions. No one is going to come to my rescue. I have to "become" the person who comes to my rescue. I am losing everything except my talent-- which is writing. I am nearly finished with a novel which will be good enough to at least get my foot in the door as a published author. Losing my job has given me time to finish my work. It sound's silly, but I lost my job because I hated my job-- pure and simple. I have been trapped in the Midwest, when I am a Southwestern girl, and can't stand the muggy cold of the area. In a sense, losing everything is freeing me of all the things that held me down before. I am Free!!! My life will be totally different. I am working on getting free-lance jobs. I am going to end up a novelist and a free-lancer. Going BK forced me over the hardest obstacle I have ever had to get over and that is my attachment to "Things." Sure, I'll try to save my furniture. My Dogs stay. But in reality, I can live in a mobile home and be perfectly happy. After sitting here thinking, and I will admit, drinking a bit, I am settling down to a routine. Sure I will need to get a job-- in a few months. The big news is that I turned it around. I am not depressed. I am looking forward to the future. I did that by understanding that I am not the only person these things have ever happened to. I realize that I can bounce back because I am smarter than they are. I also told myself that I have a choice of enjoying life, or letting this terrible cloud hang around. I mean, it is familiar and people like familiar things, but it is a person's choice to choose to be happy. The familiar thing you should be choosing is happiness, not depression. Find a good lawyer who has some experience working around the tax code.

[Gerry]

My guess is that as soon as you have an attorney who knows how to handle your situation, you'll feel more in control and less depressed. Therefore, force yourself to keep making calls and searching for one who can help.

Situational depression and stress can be greatly reduced through exercise. Force yourself to go for a hard 20 minute walk once or twice a day. Ride a bike. Get naked and dance (close the blinds first!). Anything - just move. It's probably the last thing you want to do right now, but it will help.

I married the wrong man, too, and spent two years in a deep, deep depression after I left him. I worked from home, had few friends in the area, and spent many weeks seeing another human face-to-face only in the grocery checkout line. I slept as much as 20 hours a day. When driving, I began to have compelling urges to step on the gas and drive into a bridge abutment - that scared me, and I went to a shrink for meds. I'm happy to report they worked.

The debts from the marriage put me into a Ch7, which added to the sense of failure. But ridding myself of him, and the debt, was the beginning of a new start at life. I began to see my time with him not as a mistake, but as a valuable learning experience. I know so much more about myself and am far more capable of being assertive and making sound decisions. Try to be philosophical about it.

So, make phone calls, move your body, see a doc if you think meds will help, try to put the relationship in perspective, and come here to vent. Life will get better.

[southernbelle]

Southernbelle,

Have you explore the innocent or injured spouse route?? I don't really know any information about this, but I have heard it mentioned. Didn't your exspunse actually incur these taxes without you knowlege?

Thank you guys for the kind words and comforting thoughts. I tried talking to the IRS about innocent spouse relief, but the catch is, the business was a sole prop. which was solely in my name and even though I have proof that he was responsible for paying employees, writing checks, did the W-2's and was responsible for the business paperwork, the IRS's attitude so far is to pursue me and they didn't really care about him. I think I am an easier target.

I even asked about having the debt split so that I would be responsible for a portion of it and him the other and they don't do that either. From their website, if they find more than one person is liable for a debt, they just assign the entire debt to each (without splitting it) and hound you until it's paid in full. I'm still going to try to find out if they can assign him partial responsibility because it's a lot of money that I don't have and it's sending me into depression worrying about it.

The way the taxes were incurred was he had the responsibilty to file the returns and pay them, but instead he didn't do anything except pursuaded me into believing that he paid the taxes and filed everything on time, but the reality was, he was pocketing the money. In my wildest dreams I never thought I would get royally screwed over by my own husband. I was extremely naive and know better now, but that was a hard lesson to learn. It would cost me too much to try to sue him in Civil Court and the way I see it, it would be most adventageous if I just used my money to try to get myself out of trouble especially since he continuously moves from apt. to apt. and quits jobs at the drop of a hat.

I think so far my biggest frustration is the fact that there is no cut and dry way to handle my situation. I filed chapter 7 because there's tons of other unsecured debt besides the taxes, and the taxes could be handled in a non-dischargeable chapter 13, but I think I would need to pay them back 100% and even with a second job, I would barely squeek by with monthly payments. My second job is great, but it's long exhausting work. I'm bascially working 2 full time jobs and would need to do so to fund a 13 at 100%. I can't imagine working this hard for the next 5 years which is why I'm seriously considering filing an OIC and taking my chances with the taxing authorities. I'm at a point where I'm afraid of what they'll do to me, but don't know what else to do. I wish I could borrow the entire amount outright and just pay them back all at once, but that's impossible because I don't have enough equity in my house and don't have any other assets or cash.

Thank you guys for the encouraging words because I really need it, I am in day 25 of my chapter 7 waiting for discharge and I think I'm going to loose my mind before July 7th. I constantly stress out about taxes, objections to my discharge by creditors, tax liens and levys, and keeping my job (because if I loose my primary job with little or no notice, I'll be homeless).

Gerry, thank you for reminding me that exercise might help to get me out of my funk. I used to exercise daily before I got married and it was like a miracle drug. It always made me happy and the network of friends I had at the gym was my way to interact and get healthy. I have managed to keep my gym membership throughout this entire thing and will try to make a schedule to start going again. Maybe that will help.

I'll try to stay positive and thank you guys again. This is the only place I can express myself without feeling judged or looked down upon.

[scubaman]

SonthernBelle

I had to share some of my story with you!
I also have taxes there are apart of my situation, pretty much thats why i'm filing BK, but instead of a bad relationship it was due to the company I work for and the issue of back dating stock options. I am in the hole for 145K for back taxes (scary) and 150 k in secured and unsecured debt. I was actually thinking that suicide might be an option. THATS SO WRONG, BUT Its such a long story I would have to write a book so I won't go into all details other than the fact that I'm filing BK and I'm just in the final stages of the means test and my lawyer finishing the filing and us going over the draft. I'm doing much better and have contact the IRS and my CPA and I are going to do a OIC once my BK has been complete either bk7or 13 which ever I have to do I am willing to do because I am just ready to deal with this.
I totally gave my power away and that really pissed me off a little anger was very heathly and so I feel much better. The thing that really got to me is that I have been clean and sober for 17 years and haven't smoked a cig in 14 years and man have I been tested. I never thought I could lose everything in sobriety even though I have sat in AA-NA meetings and heard longtimers talk about losing the relationships/jobs/money you name it and I wondered well how could that happen, well need I say more (shit happens).
One day at a time is what I'm doing and if I just do one thing that takes care of my situation than I feel better and sleep better. My family and friends have been ausome. This has been a very dark period but I have been in much worse situations (homeless when I was just 16) and made it through.
So good luck to you and please excuse my Blathering but you story really touched me - hang in there and just remember to breath.

[jwbbx]

SouthernBelle,

Scubaman has excellent advise - one day at a time. I might also add 'First Things First'. You're doing that in getting past the BK so that you can tackle the tax issue next.

I don't know if you've found someone to help you with the tax situation but I can maybe offer some advise from experience. I had a huge tax liability in the late 80s due to some very bad advise when I was overseas. Anyway, I used what the IRS calls an 'Enrolled Agent' to help me through it. What I liked about it was that's ALL that EAs do - deal with the IRS. CPAs and Lawyers typically have more than that going on, plus a lot of EAs are former IRS employees and have contacts. Mine worked out VERY well for me.

[Help!]

southernbelle,

It is good to vent. I have to tell you I think I was seriously suicidal after that first 341 hearing. I felt truly hopeless and cried most of the next day. I felt powerless, embarrassed, scared, guilty, ashamed, weak... The thoughts that whirled through my head (some involving nearby bridges) really frightened me. I hit absolute rock bottom that day, but after the support I received here I made the conscious decision not to let fear run my life. The very worst that could happen is that all of our belongings could be taken away and my husband's wages garnished if our case was dismissed and we were sued. Still not the end of the world!

All you can do is the best you can, for you. There will be horrible days, bad days, not so bad days and almost okay days, but yes... the foreseeable future is really going to suck for both of us!!! Try to imagine the very best outcome. There's only 33 more days and what if you keep checking pacer and NOTHING HAPPENS? Imagine how incredible you would feel when it's been discharged! Be prepared for the worst, but keep thinking those positive thoughts too. Have a worst case scenario plan but do not let that darkness come into your life.

No one knows about my situation, either. I find myself thinking, "What would this person think of me if they knew?". I stop thoughts like these mid-sentence and remind myself that BK does not define who I am or what kind of person I am. It is only a business decision. The UST is not out to get me, just doing their job. It is up to me to do mine... to do everything I can to prove that we qualify for Ch. 7 and to protect the future of my family.

Hang in there and vent anytime you need to!!!

[biotechsolution]

SouthernBelle,

Have you had an CDP hearing for the notice of detemination on the amount due?? I would try that if you haven't yet and raise the issue of your spouse being responsible for the paying the taxes of the company. The CDP will be nothing more than a formality because more than likely the agent will just rubber stamp it and send it on its way...but...you can then file an appeal to US Tax Court. This you can do pro se and if you keep good records and can show that he was responsible for doing those duties within the company you may be surprised at the outcome.

It would only cost you $60 to file the petition and then would only cost you your time. Normally the BK court would be your most sympathatic forum for discharging debts but if yours are questionable. Which most trust fund and employment taxes aren't. The BK court won't have jurisdiction and can't help you there.

I'd find some way to file a petition to the Tax Court. If anything it will halt the collection for about a year and the agents you are working with will have to talk to the IRS attorney handling the petition. At this point is when they usually try to settle it before going to trial.

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Hey Southernbelle,

Everyone else said it better than me but I just wanted to let you know you are in my thoughts and prayers, as unworthy as they are, and it WILL get better. When things were REALLY REALLY REALLY bad for me, I would look around, and by some grace that was above my own I would realize... as shi++y as everything really was, I had what I needed for *today*. For instance, today, I have a roof over my head. Today, me and my animals have kibble. Today, my health is okay. Today, the electricity hasn't been cut off. Today, I heard a kind word. Today, someone cared enough to ask me how I am and listen, really listen, to the answer. Today, I'm not living under a bridge. Today, I still have a phone and other utilities. Today, no one chewed me a new one for not being able to pay my bills. Today, I am able to walk and think and live, as limited as that living may be. So on and so forth.

Every time I looked around, I realized: TODAY, I'm okay. Just barely. But still okay.

Tomorrow, I could lose it all. (And did, actually. But worrying never stopped that or held it off or even enabled me to deal with it better; worrying just destroyed what few inner resources I had left.)

But today, right this very minute, I'm okay. I have what I need to meet tomorrow. I have no illusion of security and a LOT of other things I need, but I have the basics and nothing ever stays the same, so tomorrow could be better. I'm okay.

And so are you, I think.

I wish you every blessing!!!

[Birn]

Hang in there....

When things seem hopeless, I always remember the following quote my youth basketball coach would tell us. It has always guided me in everything I do:

"Yesterday is history...tomorrow is a mystery....and today is a gift...that's why they call it the Present."

Always take advantage of what you have today...good health, loving family, good friends, shelter, etc. As you fight through and overcome all this, your blessings will grow and you will be even more thankful and you will feel much, much better. Remember that God loves you and so do your family and close friends. It doesn't matter what has happened to you, they all love you unconditionally. There are many people out there that have so much money and so many things but they are alone and nobody loves them. That is so sad and I would never want to be in that position.

When we all grow old and eventually are lying on our deathbed, who do we want to be surrounded by? We want to be surrounded by those that we love and who love us in return. There's nothing else we want during our last moments on earth. I've never heard of anyone on their deathbed cry out for someone to bring them their mansion or their sportscar or their jewelry collection.

Many of us have been where you're at and know what you're thinking and feeling. We're all still here and have persevered. You will too.

Please let us know how you're doing. You are in our prayers. I can't wait for the day to come when you post that your bk is discharged and you're back in control of your life. It will happen.

[southernbelle]

I feel extremely blessed to have such sympathetic and caring friends on this forum. I think visiting this site everyday helps to keep me going and gives me hope.

Taking some advice from biotech, I found the US Tax Court website and did a bit of reading and downloading of forms. I think I'll try to research a bit more on tax court and any written appeals I may be able to file with the IRS before making a move.

The cost associated with filing with the Tax Court is only $60 which I think is great and I've got nothing but time. Obsessing over it has made me more determined than ever. Of course, my ex didn't leave the best paper trail in the world, but I do have documents that prove he did the W-2's, signed checks and did the paychecks. I also have a couple of the returns he actually did file. I don't know if that is good evidence or not, but it might be worth looking into.

The thing I'm most worried about is I don't want to "poke the bear". Meaning I don't know for sure if it's best to quietly file an OIC or fight for what I know is right and try to get some relief through the Tax Court.

I think I'll spend most of the day doing more research and searching for an Enrolled Agent to ask some questions. At least I now feel I have some recourse and a way to focus my time to get myself out of this mess.

Again, thank you guys. This forum is my life line.

SouthernBelle,

Have you had an CDP hearing for the notice of detemination on the amount due?? I would try that if you haven't yet and raise the issue of your spouse being responsible for the paying the taxes of the company. The CDP will be nothing more than a formality because more than likely the agent will just rubber stamp it and send it on its way...but...you can then file an appeal to US Tax Court. This you can do pro se and if you keep good records and can show that he was responsible for doing those duties within the company you may be surprised at the outcome.

It would only cost you $60 to file the petition and then would only cost you your time. Normally the BK court would be your most sympathatic forum for discharging debts but if yours are questionable. Which most trust fund and employment taxes aren't. The BK court won't have jurisdiction and can't help you there.

I'd find some way to file a petition to the Tax Court. If anything it will halt the collection for about a year and the agents you are working with will have to talk to the IRS attorney handling the petition. At this point is when they usually try to settle it before going to trial.