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    Question Sure, we look good on paper...

    Hi All,

    I'm so glad I found this board, its truly been a wealth of knowledge.

    This is my first time posting. I've retained a lawyer and am now filling out the massive amounts of paperwork to file BK. Basically, here's the rundown - I'm married but filing on my own since 90% of the debts are in my name only. From a quick glance, we make over the California state median by maybe $9k. I fell into the trap of borrowing from Peter to pay Paul while my husband was either unemployed or underemployed (only worked part time) over the past 10 years. Its about $42k in unsecured loans and credit cards. We rent and we don't own anything except for two cars free and clear that are around $4k and $7k by KBB standards.

    So here it goes - when I run our numbers on wages from the past 6 months (Jan-June) it looks like we have a larger monthly income than we actually do. Its killing me. See, my husband was on unemployment from October-Feb. Mid-Feb he got a job for $12/hr that had massive amounts of over time (6 days a week, 10 hour days) until late May-early June. Now they've stopped most of the OT so basically his income is pretty much halved. This is how its going to be for the forseeable future as the higher ups say they want to cut the OT and move to two teams instead.

    I know the logical thing to do would be to wait until December to file, but there is a chance that he may get a much better job in the next three months at around $20/hr with a good friend of his who he previously worked with, so I need to file NOW. Again tho - its a chance, not a sure thing.

    Oh yeah, and the job he has now is long term temp, which means he goes through a mandatory lay-off in January.

    So yeah, on paper when I run the numbers it looks like he makes over $2100 net a month (6 months of income totalled and then divided by 6). But in the real world where there is mainly just a 4 week month with regards to paychecks, he brings in $1700 net a month. This is a massive difference in our world.

    The same with me - while my income is steady, its doing the math using the "add up 6 months and divide by six" that's killing me. It shows that I bring home a few hundred more a month than I actually do.

    I mean, I know I ultimately bring home that much throughout the year, but when you are living paycheck to paycheck and do your personal monthly budget, you factor in what you are actually going to bring home.

    Sorry, I sound like a whiney baby when I should be grateful I have a good job. This is all just really getting to me. Honestly, I never thought I'd be in this position and assumed I would turn it around like I always managed to do, but when I tried to work with a reputable Debt Management company they said that they couldnt help me unless we brought home another $700 a month and suggested BK.

    Anyone else in similar circumstances? Did you get kicked into CH13 with a massive monthly payment? When I'm filling out our Budget sheet for the lawyer it shows that we should have loads of disposable income but Im not seeing it in the real world. UGH!
    Last edited by EmmaPeel007; 07-08-2008, 05:11 AM. Reason: cringe-worthy typos

    #2
    I am over median for CA by 23k. One of our 6 mth look back had an extra 5k that we don't get all the time. I still filed C7 last month and have my 341 tomorrow. Oh and my debt is 160k+.

    I haven't heard anything about my debt or having to switch to C13.

    Comment


      #3
      Sorry, I sound like a whiney baby when I should be grateful I have a good job. This is all just really getting to me. Honestly, I never thought I'd be in this position and assumed I would turn it around like I always managed to do, but when I tried to work with a reputable Debt Management company they said that they couldnt help me unless we brought home another $700 a month and suggested BK.
      You will have to go to a credit counselor course as part of BK prefile. They can determine if you are chapter 7, and they send a certificate to your lawyer. Just because the average looks bad, expenses also average. For instance our house insurance hits quarterly so at times it would appear to be one payment and move the time around and it could look like two payments within six months. So in the same six months what is your income vs outgo? Does it show a low or negative disposable income? 'Hub
      If I knew it all, would I be here?? Hang in there = Retained attorney 8-06, Filed 12-28-07, Discharge 8-13-08, Finally CLOSED 11-3-09, 3-31-10 AP Dismissed, Informed by incompetent lawyer of CLOSED status, October 14, 2010.

      Comment


        #4
        For Bankruptcy make sure you are using gross income not net income. There have been several over the median income filers here that did get a successful chapter 7, some of them have had to fight for it.

        Good Luck
        May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
        July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
        September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

        Comment


          #5
          Thanks so much, everyone. I just heard from my lawyer (e-mailed me back at 7AM - what a guy) and he said to go with "actual current monthly income". To me that says paycheck X 4 since we get paid weekly, so that's what I'm putting down. And yes, the form requests both gross and net - thanks JRS.

          Plus he'll have the last 6 months of our paycheck stubs, along with a ton of invoices, statements, loan docs, etc. I'm sending that he didn't ask for (I'd rather be safe than sorry) so if there are any questions he should have everything there.

          I'm just completely freaking out about all of this. On the upside, I think I've lost a couple pounds just for the sheer fact that I can hardly eat

          Comment


            #6
            Hi Emma,

            Just wanted to say that I am filing seperately as well--in my case due to a retail business that I tried...which failed.
            I am about at the same point you are at--getting the paperwork done.
            Just wanted to say hello and wish you all the best.

            Comment


              #7
              Ugh. July is a 5 paycheck month Does this mean I need to wait until August?

              Comment


                #8
                Hi Emma,

                Yes, we look great on paper too, but at the end of the month trying to pay the bills...there just isn't enough. I'm new to this too, just turned in our paperwork yesterday!

                Good Luck!
                May 2008 Hired 1st Attorney/Stopped paying CCs
                May 21, 2009 Retained 2nd Attorney
                May 28th - Filed for Ch 7 (FINALLY!)
                9/11/09 - DISCHARGED!!!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  The look back is 6 months of gross income.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks, Cali. My lawyer said to do the average over the time period as well. Since my husband is going to be earning so much less, I did it at his lowest wage.

                    Again - more questions!

                    After filling out the Monthly Budget sheet and factoring in the things that we must still pay (back taxes and 401k loans), it shows we have just over $500 left over.

                    Since I'm filing on my own, the only remaining debt we will have is about $3,500 in credit in his name that we are paying off so that one of us has decent credit. Will they take these necessary payments into account if I have to file CH13?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You did the average of the gross from pay stubs over the past 6 months?

                      And when are you filing?

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                        #12
                        For mine, yes. I also have a letter from my company that states my hourly wage and what my income will be over the year including our company performance bonus. I work very little OT.

                        As for my husband, since his income has changed drastically its nowhere near what the average is over the 6 months. I did his as a projected income over the next six months. My attorney wrote back, "I needed a six month average, and the amount that he will be earning monthly for the foreseeable future. As you can see, the numbers can be very different."

                        If this is wrong, I can change it. I have correction tape and I'm not afraid to use it.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          My attorney who has 30 yrs of experience, didn't tell me that. He said 6 mths average regardless of what happens in the future.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks so much for all the info, Cali. BTW - best of luck on your 341 tomorrow Let us know how it goes.

                            Comment

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