Wow just opened BofA statement and my interest went from 1.99% to 28.99%

[Doghouse]

Many of us are educated and actually do read all the fine lines, fine print, fine words etc. Problem is in life things change. If I was completely okay and capable in signing the contract when I had my normal job or was in good health or the economy was good or before the baby or before the accident etc and circumstances change, then if big bank is not willing to acknowledge the change in circumstances and renegotiate the terms, then there are consequences. For both big bank and myself. Things moves at the speed of life. Life is give and take.

For example, I was also on jury duty a while ago and served on a case. I do not get paid by my employer. Eight days of missed work caused me to miss a payment by two days and despite me calling and explaining to citibank BEFORE I was late that I'd be late, they still jacked up my rate from 2.9% to 28.99%. The yearly interest servicing my Citibank balance just went up 999.66%. They refused to reduce the rate.

It's not okay to raise your hand and tell someone you are going to tap 'em on their forehead with your finger and instead land a punch with a closed fist. That's what the CC banks are doing.

[BigJohn]

Exactly! And to say that you knew it MAY happen because it was in he fine print of your agreement illustrates precisely what I was talking about in my previous post. How many "may"s or "could"s are in the agreement? Yes we signed them, but these agreements give the credit card issuer entirely too much leeway. Consumers have the right to expect fair lending practices, not just in their mortgages and secured loans, but with unsecured credit as well. The system needs fixing, one way or another.

How many "may"s or "could"s are in a typical mortgage? Not many. Usually the language states "will". A contract with too many "may"s or "could"s isn't a valid contract. It is predatory.

A lot of the credit cards I had were introduced to me thru the mail as pre-approved blah blah blahs. I would call the number and they would send the card. They always made sure I understood that the interest was (low amount). When I got the card, the terms would be included. I believed what I was told and never looked at the fine print.

With some of the cards, when you go to make the first payment, it would take 2 weeks (give or take) to set up the arrangement. This meant the first payment would be late.

I also noticed some payments did not occur on the same day of the month. For example, I would pay last month the bill on the 15th but this month it is due on the 11th. This caused problems.

Another problem is the bill would be due, lets say, on the 12th. I go to pay it o the 12th and it would be a day they don't except payments (generally Saturday or Sunday).

[ready2puke]

No payment ever policy...ya gotta love that. Thanks for the chuckle

[Flameout]

This was one of the main reasons that I had to finally file for BK. CC companies that had increased their interest rates to loan shark levels. There is no way an average hard working individual with 28 to 32 % interest can ever pay off their cards. I figures that if the CC companies can change their fees and other parts of their contracts without my consent so could I. I changed mine to a no payment ever policy. They left me and others no choice.

[njguy1972]

This is the reason I am on this board. Up until this month I had no late payments or missed payments. I will admit I was using my credit cards a little too much and ran up big balances over the past 4 years.

They moved my rate from 11% to 25.99%. At the same time Amex removed all my available credit.

I was probably destined for bankruptcy anyway but was hooping with a work bonus, tax refund, and new job to get out of it while the interest rates on my cards were reasonable. I guess they made the decision for me.

[syn]

Yup, looking at all the credit cards my dad is putting in his bankruptcy his apr percentage is now in the high 20's and they take on $800 + a month in "misc. fees" no wonder he stopped paying them! Even if you are behind one month you can never catch up again especially if you have a high balance.

[Flamingo]

Understanding the terms of an agreement doesn't always make the agreement right, fair or legal. In contract law, which is codified by each individual state, typically the terms must be fair and reasonable. There is an inherent presumption by the consumer that the creditor who extends credit is doing so in a manner that is fair and will enable the borrower to pay back the loan. The consumer is permitted to assume that their lender is acting in good faith. One of the affirmative defenses used to defend a debtor against defaulting on a contract is that the terms are "unconscionable" and if a judge or jury agrees that the terms are unconscionable, the borrower is relieved of the debt, even IF they signed and understood. The legal interpretation is that a creditor (usually a large business or corporation, not an individual selling a car) has a higher level of responsibility to draft fair terms. The expectation that each and every individual who borrows money or signs a credit agreement even has the education or capacity to understand those terms is unreasonable, so most states have codified a businesses responsibility to their customers in such circumstances.

Unconscionable contract terms can be crystal clear or much more ambiguous.
Should we to assume that just because the terms of a credit card issuer are in writing that they are fair? The credit card companies would like you to think so, and in fact that is a tactic they use to get you to pay. If no one calls them on it it will continue, even if it is not right, fair, or legal. Our system is a reactionary system. Laws are set up in reaction to an event. A person/business will sue another person/business in reaction to an event. And so on.

The problem for consumers is, once they get to the point that these "unconscionable" terms are presented to them, they are in an unfair position, they are usually already in debt, or lack the education/time/capacity to get it, OR they were lulled into a false sense of security that their credit card company actually cares abut them. It's called predatory lending, and it's illegal, unethical and unfair.

So to say "you should have read the terms, next time read the terms an learn from your mistakes" is a simplistic point of view that assumes that what the credit card companies are doing is completely legal and fair.

With all the unscrupulous lending practices of the past few decades, unless one lives in a cave with no form of communication one should be aware of the lending practices in today's society. I agree with your posting but businesses are not in business to be fair, they want to make money for themselves and their shareholders. Again, the heading to this thread is "Wow just opened BofA statement and my interest went from 1.99% to 28.99%." My entire point in this thread is that if that occurs and the contract one signed is breached, that should not be a shock if one educated themselves as to what was in the contract/agreement signed at the time of credit issuance. My whole point in this thread is to try to get folks to educate themselves as to what they are signing for; while it's nice to be extended credit, there are risks and obligations that go along with it that should not be a shock to anyone. If all of the folks who fell in the predatory lending trap as to their mortgages did their homework ahead of signing those papers, they would have realized they could not really afford to have purchased the house or may not be able to refinance at a specific time and that they were taking on a big risk. A couple was mentioned in an article I read somwhere (Newsweek I believe) stating that when they went to refinance their ARM they were shocked to learn they had a huge prepayment penalty in their paperwork that they were not aware of. If they had read those documents, asked questions, did their homework or had an attorney read those documents, they would have known that and maybe not have taken the loan in the first place.

I am not here to state that I believe banks are OK in their ways as to lending; one needs to educate oneself as to lending practices, contracts, clauses and small print before one signs. The couple I cited above is a clear example of that. Banks want to make money and they make it off of their customers. No one forces anyone to sign a document; one can always say No. When you sign for credit, you are asking to use someone else's money under certain terms and to pay back that money under certain terms. Credit has become so easy in this country that it appears people have lost sight of that and feel entitled to certain things that are not listed in the contract they signed. Education is the key and hopefully this meltdown will spur folks to educate themselves more as to credit/finances and sit down with their kids to prepare them for the credit/financial world.

[Flamingo]

Understanding the terms of an agreement doesn't always make the agreement right, fair or legal. In contract law, which is codified by each individual state, typically the terms must be fair and reasonable. There is an inherent presumption by the consumer that the creditor who extends credit is doing so in a manner that is fair and will enable the borrower to pay back the loan. The consumer is permitted to assume that their lender is acting in good faith. One of the affirmative defenses used to defend a debtor against defaulting on a contract is that the terms are "unconscionable" and if a judge or jury agrees that the terms are unconscionable, the borrower is relieved of the debt, even IF they signed and understood. The legal interpretation is that a creditor (usually a large business or corporation, not an individual selling a car) has a higher level of responsibility to draft fair terms. The expectation that each and every individual who borrows money or signs a credit agreement even has the education or capacity to understand those terms is unreasonable, so most states have codified a businesses responsibility to their customers in such circumstances.

Unconscionable contract terms can be crystal clear or much more ambiguous.
Should we to assume that just because the terms of a credit card issuer are in writing that they are fair? The credit card companies would like you to think so, and in fact that is a tactic they use to get you to pay. If no one calls them on it it will continue, even if it is not right, fair, or legal. Our system is a reactionary system. Laws are set up in reaction to an event. A person/business will sue another person/business in reaction to an event. And so on.

The problem for consumers is, once they get to the point that these "unconscionable" terms are presented to them, they are in an unfair position, they are usually already in debt, or lack the education/time/capacity to get it, OR they were lulled into a false sense of security that their credit card company actually cares abut them. It's called predatory lending, and it's illegal, unethical and unfair.

So to say "you should have read the terms, next time read the terms an learn from your mistakes" is a simplistic point of view that assumes that what the credit card companies are doing is completely legal and fair.

With all the unscrupulous lending practices of the past few decades, unless one lives in a cave with no form of communication one should be aware of the lending practices in today's society. I agree with your posting but businesses are not in business to be fair, they want to make money for themselves and their shareholders. Again, the heading to this thread is "Wow just opened BofA statement and my interest went from 1.99% to 28.99%." My entire point in this thread is that if that occurs and the contract one signed is breached, that should not be a shock if one educated themselves as to what was in the contract/agreement signed at the time of credit issuance. My whole point in this thread is to try to get folks to educate themselves as to what they are signing for; while it's nice to be extended credit, there are risks and obligations that go along with it that should not be a shock to anyone. If all of the folks who fell in the predatory lending trap as to their mortgages did their homework ahead of signing those papers, they would have realized they could not really afford to have purchased the house or may not be able to refinance at a specific time and that they were taking on a big risk. A couple was mentioned in an article I read somwhere (Newsweek I believe) stating that when they went to refinance their ARM they were shocked to learn they had a huge prepayment penalty in their paperwork that they were not aware of. If they had read those documents, asked questions, did their homework or had an attorney read those documents, they would have known that and maybe not have taken the loan in the first place.

I am not here to state that I believe banks are OK in their ways as to lending; one needs to educate oneself as to lending practices, contracts, clauses and small print before one signs. The couple I cited above is a clear example of that. Banks want to make money and they make it off of their customers. No one forces anyone to sign a document; one can always say No. When you sign for credit, you are asking to use someone else's money under certain terms and to pay back that money under certain terms. Credit has become so easy in this country that it appears people have lost sight of that and feel entitled to certain things that are not listed in the contract they signed. Education is the key and hopefully this meltdown will spur folks to educate themselves more as to credit/finances and sit down with their kids to prepare them for the credit/financial world.

[Andyman]

I always paid on time and usually paid a little extra. Then one month I was one day late on both cards and my rate went from 6% to 28.99%. I had no choice but to file.

[2Bshinyandnew]

I think BigJohn has the right Idea. We received these modifications on some of our credit cards when obviously we were not able to pay the balance off in full. It's similar to tying someone to a tree and telling them your going to shoot them and they are free to move(even though they are tied)

Exactly! And to say that you knew it MAY happen because it was in he fine print of your agreement illustrates precisely what I was talking about in my previous post. How many "may"s or "could"s are in the agreement? Yes we signed them, but these agreements give the credit card issuer entirely too much leeway. Consumers have the right to expect fair lending practices, not just in their mortgages and secured loans, but with unsecured credit as well. The system needs fixing, one way or another.

How many "may"s or "could"s are in a typical mortgage? Not many. Usually the language states "will". A contract with too many "may"s or "could"s isn't a valid contract. It is predatory.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

What might have happened is the credit card company changed the terms of the loan. I have had that done several times. I received when I got the credit card decent terms. When things started to look bad, the credit card company sent me new terms with the stipulation that if I did not like the new terms, I could just pay off the loan.

Changing the loan terms after you get the loan doesn't seem right to me, is it?

I think BigJohn has the right Idea. We received these modifications on some of our credit cards when obviously we were not able to pay the balance off in full. It's similar to tying someone to a tree and telling them your going to shoot them and they are free to move(even though they are tied)

[BigJohn]

What might have happened is the credit card company changed the terms of the loan. I have had that done several times. I received when I got the credit card decent terms. When things started to look bad, the credit card company sent me new terms with the stipulation that if I did not like the new terms, I could just pay off the loan.

Changing the loan terms after you get the loan doesn't seem right to me, is it?

[2Bshinyandnew]

No one is saying anyone is irresponsible - everyone needs to educate themselves from these experiences by understanding how and why these things occur and educate oneself as to the terms and conditions of one's credit, loan or mortgage accounts.

Understanding the terms of an agreement doesn't always make the agreement right, fair or legal. In contract law, which is codified by each individual state, typically the terms must be fair and reasonable. There is an inherent presumption by the consumer that the creditor who extends credit is doing so in a manner that is fair and will enable the borrower to pay back the loan. The consumer is permitted to assume that their lender is acting in good faith. One of the affirmative defenses used to defend a debtor against defaulting on a contract is that the terms are "unconscionable" and if a judge or jury agrees that the terms are unconscionable, the borrower is relieved of the debt, even IF they signed and understood. The legal interpretation is that a creditor (usually a large business or corporation, not an individual selling a car) has a higher level of responsibility to draft fair terms. The expectation that each and every individual who borrows money or signs a credit agreement even has the education or capacity to understand those terms is unreasonable, so most states have codified a businesses responsibility to their customers in such circumstances.

Unconscionable contract terms can be crystal clear or much more ambiguous.
Should we to assume that just because the terms of a credit card issuer are in writing that they are fair? The credit card companies would like you to think so, and in fact that is a tactic they use to get you to pay. If no one calls them on it it will continue, even if it is not right, fair, or legal. Our system is a reactionary system. Laws are set up in reaction to an event. A person/business will sue another person/business in reaction to an event. And so on.

The problem for consumers is, once they get to the point that these "unconscionable" terms are presented to them, they are in an unfair position, they are usually already in debt, or lack the education/time/capacity to get it, OR they were lulled into a false sense of security that their credit card company actually cares abut them. It's called predatory lending, and it's illegal, unethical and unfair.

So to say "you should have read the terms, next time read the terms an learn from your mistakes" is a simplistic point of view that assumes that what the credit card companies are doing is completely legal and fair.

[JRScott]

Not a federal holiday although Obama is asking that everyone take the day off. LOL

You know it probably should be a federal holiday. However if Obama was really serious about that, he could have introduced legislation making it so as a Senator......

Still I think rather than all this early voting, allegations of fraud etc. I think better to make the day to vote a federal holiday. Ask all businesses except essential ones (hospital, fire, police) close down, and even the essential ones should provide some time to get to the polling place.

Yeah they all jacked my Interest rates up to, some of mine were just at 30%, like some of you I didn't care anymore and when they started jacking them up is when I stopped paying them....odd how that works

[Flamingo]

Flamingo - You misunderstood my post. I do not blame the cc companies at all. I ALSO READ EVERY SINGLE LINE BEFORE I SIGNED UP WITH THE CARDS AND LOC'S. I do not blame them. I blame myself. I got cancer. I had to live with the choices that I made prior to getting ill. For you to say that I am blaming someone else it totally uncalled for. When I found myself with a serious illness and an extreme income reduction, I did what I needed to do. First I contacted all of my creditors and worked out payment plans. I stuck to the payment plan until my income was reduced further - then I filed Ch 7. Now, you are saying to me I was irresponsible. It does not help matters to point fingers. When we have made an error in judgment you FIX THE PROBLEM rather than assign blame. That is what I am doing.

Here is your posting that I responded to: Originally Posted by StartingOver08
"IMHO I think the banks do it because they can...they do not even wait until you pay them late. They can do it for any reason, like you have excessive balances on the rest of your cards or a high utilization. As long as they give you 15 days notice they can charge you what ever the market will bear.
And of course they are making money hand over fist - at a 29% interest rate you would NEVER pay off that debt if you paid the minimum payment. That is the intent of the cc company's - then we are their annuities! Or their slaves to our own debt....they know this, it is part of their business plan."

I did not call you irresponsible in my response to that posting. In general terms, when we all in the beginning sign on for a credit card, how many of us take the time to read all fine print as to what we are allowing the bank to do if we cannot make payments on the card? None of us at that time may think we will end up in a place where we may have to file BK. When it does, we are all shocked an confused as to why the banks are raising our rates when we have contacted them that we cannot pay. At that point in the situation, we tend to blame the banks/creditors for what they are doing to us when we, in the first place, allowed them to do it by taking on the credit. Banks are in business to make money; they charge interest on items you buy through them and penalize everyone when payments are not received or received on time. That is how they make their money and if you reread your last sentences above in your posting - you are correct - and of course it does not seem fair but business and business in the business world and it is all about making money.

I am sorry you were struck with cancer to be in the position you are now as it happens to many along with many people losing their jobs or having disabling heart attacks, etc. that put them in line to have to file. The intent of my posting was not how someone got to the point of filing, it is what we have allowed the banks/creditors to do as to our bills when we sign on the dotted line and that is why all the problems occur. Many people come on here in shock that their interest rate rose 10% on their next statement or the cash advance check was not honored and they were given an "excuse" by the credit card company why it was not when, in the first place, we allowed them to do that by signing. We make ourselves the "slaves" as you indicate in your posting. No one is saying anyone is irresponsible - everyone needs to educate themselves from these experiences by understanding how and why these things occur and educate oneself as to the terms and conditions of one's credit, loan or mortgage accounts.