Home Value Zillow vs. Realtors vs Appraiser

[fltoo]

True JB, I just gave you the real life scenario of how it happens.

Like lawyers, realtors have a bad name due to the lousy ones.

Judges buy into the label of "appraiser" also thinking they do a better job. I know a lot of bad appraisers as well as realtors, but truly, a good realtor has a better hand on the pulse of the housing market. Unfortunately, they only comprise about 10-20% of all the professionals.

And in reality, all those prices you mentioned really have no bearing on what the house will actually sell for in this market.

[justbroke]

Did I mention, I love two of my Realtors. The first, sold my first home, which I bought pre-construction. The second, sold me the home that I'm in. I didn't like the two of the other ones.

I think the only reason why the BK court listens to appraisers over a good real estate agent (or Realtor) is because BK is such a technical process. I would venture to bet that if a Realtor put their appraisal on a URAR (uniform residential appraisal report), and listed their experience, education, work history and references on that signed report... it would be better than one from a licensed appraiser. I think that's the only difference, really (the URAR versus a CMA).

[fltoo]

I agree with most of what you posted, but my experience selling 3 homes, differs in some areas.

Elevation, in my example, was the same exact model home (colonial) with different exterior features (elevation).
Sure a real stone front might raise the value a little than a vinyl siding front, but, not by much.Agreed, mine did such a thing. However, I had several top selling and great Realtors way overprice the place. Again, the comps are the key to the value because that's what the bank appraiser will use and that's what a smart person will look at when trying to determine what they should spend on a home.
(No way is a good agent going to take a listing and overprice it. Most I know would reject the business.)Yes, Realtors look at the MLS too, with historical and current sales data, but the appraiser is looking more at comps than I've ever had any Realtor do. (They can only look at what is available.)They c Plus an Appraiser will generally perform at least 2 different types of appraisal. One is the market analysis, which is what the Realtor does (but I don't think they do as well, which is my point). The other two are the cost to build and the rental analysis. Generally, the rental one is moot.(There are 3 types of appraisals. Only a market value appraisal is good for selling the house. The cost to rebuild is for insurance companies.)
Appearance of a home is subjective as you suggested. However, I will pay more for a home that has upgraded features, than for one without, so interior condition does count. For example, a home which needs much paint, love and care, molded carpet, ugly linoleum, on the same model, will have less value than an exact model next door. In the end, the market wins, but just looking at the outside of a house and/or looking at MLS comps Didn't say condition does not count, just said that your upgrades are not what you think they are worth on the open market.
I've never had a "high" appraisal. In fact, one came in too low to get a refinance deal. Some lenders are more responsible. When a lender calls an appraiser and tells them they "need it to come in at $XXX K", that appraiser, if he wants continued business, will generally make sure it's above $XXX. I have been fortunate to not have worked with such lenders.

LOL, never met a lender that honest.JB, you are a bright guy and I value your opinions on many things, but selling 3 houses does not a housing guru make you.

[justbroke]

LOL, never met a lender that honest.

JB, you are a bright guy and I value your opinions on many things, but selling 3 houses does not a housing guru make you.

Don't claim to be one at all, and if I sounded as if I was one... I apologize.

I have bought ALL my homes from only one lender. They don't play that overpriced appraisal game. Like I said, I had a refinance appraisal come in less than the AVM that the lender did, and the one I did. They didn't allow the refinance. My views posted are from personal experience.

Then, on the other side of the spectrum, are the true scum of the who housing finance crisis. The lenders (or mortgage brokers) who scammed the system using corrupt brokers and property appraisers. Fortunately, I wasn't part of that system and hence have no experience dealing on that side of the broad range of deals.

[fltoo]

I should have put a smiley at the end of saying you were not a guru.
I was jesting.
I very much value all of your information.

[hamletsdead]

Here's a well known Bankruptcy judge's recent opinion on CMA's and other appraisals performed by a Realtor.

This was in a case where the Realtor's values were $307K for market value, $292K for quick sale, and $314K for listing price.

The professional appraisal came in at $224K. It just goes to the weight of which is more acceptable in a case where you are lien stripping, and the lender is not happy.

My contention has never been that a Realtor can't give one a CMA or an estimated value... but a Realtor's number will not hold up in court. The only way a Realtor's number could hold up in court, would be to go to an evidentiary hearing (adversary proceeding or contest matter) in the Bankruptcy court and call the Realtor as an expert witness to give a forensic analysis of how they performed their analysis, then be prepared to have the lender present a certified appraiser with years of building experience, rebut everything. Maybe you'll win, but the cost of that... is a lot more than a $300 appraisal.

What's the case cite? I'm in the process doing a Chapter 20 -- am about to get my chapter 7 discharge and then file 13 to strip the lien on my 3rd mortgage, since the lender won't settle to remove their lien (despite my lack of personal liability).

[justbroke]

What's the case cite? I'm in the process doing a Chapter 20 -- am about to get my chapter 7 discharge and then file 13 to strip the lien on my 3rd mortgage, since the lender won't settle to remove their lien (despite my lack of personal liability).

in the 11th circuit the precedence is In Re Tanner (11th Circuit 2000). Also for Florida its In Re Sadala.

Those cites are for lien stripping and are all based on the US Supreme decision in Nobleman (sp).