Amex

[Skipper]

Hi all,

I am about 70 days in arrears with AMEX (among others), due to a job loss/large pay reduction.

In my "new" job, I do meet the "means test" for my state, should I have to file for Chapter 7. However, (and I am not sure on this one), I would like to look at a Chapter 13 scenario, as I also have a (now) unsecured HELOC due to the declining value of my home. As an aside, in doing some research, it would appear that there is a Ninth Circuit Court ruling that upheld a petitioners right to file Chapter 13, even though there was no disposable income to pay. I do plan to keep my home, as my mortgage is now affordable. What is not affordable is any of the payment options that AMEX has offered to date. I have relatives that are willing to step up and help to settle the debt, although it would have to be for substantially less than I owe.

My question(s) are these; about how long does it normally take for AMEX to file a suit (I owe roughly 30K)? In addition, do they factor in the potential "risk/reward" prior to suing, meaning trying to determine before hand the potential recovery vs. the cost of litigation and bankruptcy?

I ask this because I have received a few calls from a firm named "Zwiecker"(sp), attempting to try to get me into a program that I know I cannot afford. I was clear in explaining my hardship and position, but I am still not sure what happens next.

Thank you all in advance for any thoughts you may have...

Skipper

[justbroke]

However, (and I am not sure on this one), I would like to look at a Chapter 13 scenario, as I also have a (now) unsecured HELOC due to the declining value of my home.

Just remember that just because a loan is wholly unsecured, doesn't mean that the creditor doesn't have an enforceable lien against the property that secures it.

As an aside, in doing some research, it would appear that there is a Ninth Circuit Court ruling that upheld a petitioners right to file Chapter 13, even though there was no disposable income to pay.

Same in the 11th Circuit too. Basically, this is the so-called back door Chapter 7.

My question(s) are these; about how long does it normally take for AMEX to file a suit (I owe roughly 30K)? In addition, do they factor in the potential "risk/reward" prior to suing, meaning trying to determine before hand the potential recovery vs. the cost of litigation and bankruptcy?

All unsecured creditor will generally start asset searches on you once you go 90-days past due and get canceled. Aggressive collection tactics will start as well (AMEX's favorite aggressive collector is GC Services... they are mean). How quickly they'll start the process to sue you is anyone's guess. It's first to see if you have something to attach to, and whether you're employed (to go for garnishments if your State allows them).

I ask this because I have received a few calls from a firm named "Zwiecker"(sp), attempting to try to get me into a program that I know I cannot afford. I was clear in explaining my hardship and position, but I am still not sure what happens next.

You may need to just start your bankruptcy pre-planning now. I don't know why you want to wait?

[ace13]

[QUOTE=justbroke;343502]Just remember that just because a loan is wholly unsecured, doesn't mean that the creditor doesn't have an enforceable lien against the property that secures it.

Forgive my stupidity but if a loan is unsecured how can 'property' secure it? Is this only in real estate loans? I'm asking because I have a thread in collections on CitiFinancial and others brought up being careful about signing an unsecured because the loan company sneaks things in there. ???

[Skipper]

You may need to just start your bankruptcy pre-planning now. I don't know why you want to wait?

I am starting my planning.... The big concern that I have, is possibly jeopardizing the mortgage modification that I have been working on (it is not yet "permanent"). Once my modification is "permanent" (90-120 days), then I have no problem filing. I hope this makes sense, in that I want to keep my family in their home, and that with a completed, "permanent" modification, I will be able to do that.

Do you know if a bk filing (Chapter 13) can cause a modification agreement to be retracted, even if the payments are current and the terms of the modification have not been violated? It is a MHA modification that I am working on.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

S

[justbroke]

Forgive my stupidity but if a loan is unsecured how can 'property' secure it? Is this only in real estate loans? I'm asking because I have a thread in collections on CitiFinancial and others brought up being careful about signing an unsecured because the loan company sneaks things in there. ???

Because you still "pledged" the property as collateral. For example, should you try to sell that home, at it's distressed value, the sale won't go through. The problem will be that second lien. They have a right to any proceeds from a sale of that property... after all senior liens have been paid.

As for Citifinancial, Beneficial, HFC, and the like, absolutely be careful. I wrote earlier where they'll add things like "household goods", or "computers" or somesuch on your paperwork. You'll sign the paperwork, because you're staring at the $8,000 check they put in front of you. They now have a "security interest" (or lien) against your "household goods" or even "all" computers in your home!

However, Citifinaicial, Beneficial, and HFC can't sneak a lien against your home in a deceptive manner. That's because mortgages and notes have to be recorded a particular way. Where those scum-bag lenders make their money, is on worthless "insurance" products that they sell to you and include them in the loan. Then charge 24% interest on the "insurance" that you purchased.

[billf]

It took them about 6 mths to sue me. I decided to go BK7.

[ace13]

Justbroke...Thanks for the clarification. I checked my docs and nothing was included as security in my loan. And I opted out of the insurance

[calgirl67]

Hi all,

I am about 70 days in arrears with AMEX (among others), due to a job loss/large pay reduction.

In my "new" job, I do meet the "means test" for my state, should I have to file for Chapter 7. However, (and I am not sure on this one), I would like to look at a Chapter 13 scenario, as I also have a (now) unsecured HELOC due to the declining value of my home. As an aside, in doing some research, it would appear that there is a Ninth Circuit Court ruling that upheld a petitioners right to file Chapter 13, even though there was no disposable income to pay. I do plan to keep my home, as my mortgage is now affordable. What is not affordable is any of the payment options that AMEX has offered to date. I have relatives that are willing to step up and help to settle the debt, although it would have to be for substantially less than I owe.

My question(s) are these; about how long does it normally take for AMEX to file a suit (I owe roughly 30K)? In addition, do they factor in the potential "risk/reward" prior to suing, meaning trying to determine before hand the potential recovery vs. the cost of litigation and bankruptcy?

I ask this because I have received a few calls from a firm named "Zwiecker"(sp), attempting to try to get me into a program that I know I cannot afford. I was clear in explaining my hardship and position, but I am still not sure what happens next.

Thank you all in advance for any thoughts you may have...

Skipper

OK. I also stopped paying on my Amex card in February. I owe them $16k. I started getting calls from Amex themselves, quite nasty, then after 5 mths they sent it to ZWICKER & ASSOC. who always love to say upfront they are A Law Firm!! So they "offered" me a few payment plans, totally unaffordable, then started to get nasty too.

I sent them a DV (Debt Validation) letter and also a "no more phone contact - all contact to be in writing only) letter 2 mths ago and I have not heard from them since. They have now sent the account back to Amex.

Amex has since offer to settle my $16k balance for $4,000. Which I can't so I am filing C 7.

Just send Zwicker a DV also stating you do not want any more phone contact, and they will go away.

Their main weapon to get you to pay is intimidation, and that is hard to do in a letter.

[Skipper]

OK. I also stopped paying on my Amex card in February. I owe them $16k. I started getting calls from Amex themselves, quite nasty, then after 5 mths they sent it to ZWICKER & ASSOC. who always love to say upfront they are A Law Firm!! So they "offered" me a few payment plans, totally unaffordable, then started to get nasty too.

I sent them a DV (Debt Validation) letter and also a "no more phone contact - all contact to be in writing only) letter 2 mths ago and I have not heard from them since. They have now sent the account back to Amex.

Amex has since offer to settle my $16k balance for $4,000. Which I can't so I am filing C 7.

Just send Zwicker a DV also stating you do not want any more phone contact, and they will go away.

Their main weapon to get you to pay is intimidation, and that is hard to do in a letter.

Thanks!

I know I have seen a copy of a DV letter, but I cannot remember where. Can I ask; what did you include in your letter? In addition, where did you mail the letter to?

Thanks again!

Skipper

[calgirl67]

I would also like to request, in writing, that no telephone contact be made by your offices to my home or to my place of employment. If your offices attempt telephone communication with me, including but not limited to computer generated calls and calls or correspondence sent to or with any third parties, it will be considered harassment and I will have no choice but to file suit. All future communications with me MUST be done in writing and sent to the address noted in this letter by USPS.

It would be advisable that you assure that your records are in order before I am forced to take legal action. This is an attempt to correct your records, any information obtained shall be used for that purpose.
Best Regards,

Your signature

And name in writing

[calgirl67]

DV Letter

Oh yes, very important - make sure you send it CERTIFIED MAIL WITH RETURN RECEIPT.

That way they can't play dumb and say they didn;t get it, or it "is not in my file". I've had CAs pull that crap on me before.

[Skipper]

Oh yes, very important - make sure you send it CERTIFIED MAIL WITH RETURN RECEIPT.

That way they can't play dumb and say they didn;t get it, or it "is not in my file". I've had CAs pull that crap on me before.

Thanks...

How did you get the Zweiker address to send it to?

Skipper

[calgirl67]

Zwicker address

Zwicker & Associates, P.C.
80 Minuteman Road
Andover, MA 01810-1008

All correspondence has to go to this address. Put your Amex account # on the letter too.

[Skipper]

Zwicker & Associates, P.C.
80 Minuteman Road
Andover, MA 01810-1008

All correspondence has to go to this address. Put your Amex account # on the letter too.

Thanks again for all the info!

S

[calgirl67]

I am starting my planning.... The big concern that I have, is possibly jeopardizing the mortgage modification that I have been working on (it is not yet "permanent"). Once my modification is "permanent" (90-120 days), then I have no problem filing. I hope this makes sense, in that I want to keep my family in their home, and that with a completed, "permanent" modification, I will be able to do that.

Do you know if a bk filing (Chapter 13) can cause a modification agreement to be retracted, even if the payments are current and the terms of the modification have not been violated? It is a MHA modification that I am working on.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

S

It's crazy we are in the same situation. We too are in the middle of a HAMP trial modification. Last payment due Jan 1st. I am crossing my fingers they don't take too long after that to make it permanent as we NEED to file Ch 7 ASAP and I don't want to risk the HAMP being denied due to a Ch 7 filing.

I called Wells Fargo 3 times asking about this, I got 3 different answers. One said no it doesn't matter, another said yes the HAMP will be cancelled and you will have to reapply. Another said they will automatically foreclose on our home if we file as they will be notified by the BK court they are listed as a secured creditor and Wells Fargo will then file a Motion for relief of Automatic Stay (from BK proceedings) and start foreclosure proceedings.

Not worth messing with my modification right now.