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    Got this in the mail from the Bankruptcy Judge

    It appears to the Court that the compensation paid, or agreed to be paid, to Debtor's counsel may exceed its reasonable value. In this Court, in accordance with the memo issused on March1 2008, the presumptive fee approved for below-median debtor's case is $1,100.00. All fee disclousre exceeding the presumptive fees are referred to the bamkruptcy judge for review.

    Consumer bk cases are limited by fixed fees unless the quantity or nature of required services materially exceeds the norm. The court assumes counsel will provide a typical range of services required in a typical case. If cetainservices are excluded or included, or if complexities in the case require services beyond those typically required, the court anticipates disclousre of such. While hourly rates and time expenditures are not unimportant, the focus is on the nature of services provided.

    Through full disclosure of the representation contemplated by cousel in the cae, the court can determine the amount of resonable compensation to be award under 11 U.S.C 330(a). Unless cousel can demonstrate services inclusion or complexities warranting additional fees, the court will not approve amounts above the presumptive fees.

    Accordingly, Debtor's cousel shall file, by no later than January 7,2010, an explanation as to why this case falls outside the board parameters of cases included within the normal range of fees. An explanation of any services are included in the fee may be helpful. Counsel should also include an explanation of complexities.

    It is so ordered.

    So does this mean our BK counsel charged us to much for our Chapter 7 BK and we are way under median?
    We paid her $1400 for Ch 7 - we are not reaffirming our primary house, rental house, or 1 car just doing ride through since Dh is laid off just in case we need to walk away.
    we gathered all docs and info for her had free 1st consult other then that we never talked excpet twice for about 10 mins or less over phone while looking over petiton.
    Will trustee just keep the diference then if it's suppose to be $1100 vs $1400?
    Or will counsel found a way to explain $1400 fee?
    Our 341 is Feb 2nd can not wait
    Thanks

    #2
    I don't know but it sounds like it maybe in your favor... (Waiting to read the replies)
    In a perfect world every dog has a home, and every home has a dog.

    Comment


      #3
      Interesting situation, to say the least.

      However there is no way anyone here will know if your lawyer will find a way to explain the higher fees or not.

      Good Luck, and keep us posted.
      8-07-09-filed Chapter 7
      11-18-09-DISCHARGED!!

      Life is not what challenges you face, but how you face those challenges.

      Comment


        #4
        1100 plus 299 filing fee equals...
        7-2-2009 Filed
        8-28-09 341 Concluded, no assets
        10-28-09 DISCHARGED/CLOSED!!!!

        Comment


          #5
          we paid bk lawyer $1400 plus $299 filing fee....

          Comment


            #6
            Even-money bet you are getting a refund. If the bar date and discharge have both passed, then it becomes hard to see how the trustee can glom the cash. the Court has already hinted broadly that the fees are excessive. the attorney presses the matter at his peril (remember, he has to appear before that Judge every day). If he is smart, he will concede the issue.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by badkarma View Post
              It appears to the Court that the compensation paid, or agreed to be paid, to Debtor's counsel may exceed its reasonable value. In this Court, in accordance with the memo issused on March1 2008, the presumptive fee approved for below-median debtor's case is $1,100.00. All fee disclousre exceeding the presumptive fees are referred to the bamkruptcy judge for review.

              Consumer bk cases are limited by fixed fees unless the quantity or nature of required services materially exceeds the norm. The court assumes counsel will provide a typical range of services required in a typical case. If cetainservices are excluded or included, or if complexities in the case require services beyond those typically required, the court anticipates disclousre of such. While hourly rates and time expenditures are not unimportant, the focus is on the nature of services provided.

              Through full disclosure of the representation contemplated by cousel in the cae, the court can determine the amount of resonable compensation to be award under 11 U.S.C 330(a). Unless cousel can demonstrate services inclusion or complexities warranting additional fees, the court will not approve amounts above the presumptive fees.

              Accordingly, Debtor's cousel shall file, by no later than January 7,2010, an explanation as to why this case falls outside the board parameters of cases included within the normal range of fees. An explanation of any services are included in the fee may be helpful. Counsel should also include an explanation of complexities.

              It is so ordered.

              So does this mean our BK counsel charged us to much for our Chapter 7 BK and we are way under median?
              We paid her $1400 for Ch 7 - we are not reaffirming our primary house, rental house, or 1 car just doing ride through since Dh is laid off just in case we need to walk away.
              we gathered all docs and info for her had free 1st consult other then that we never talked excpet twice for about 10 mins or less over phone while looking over petiton.
              Will trustee just keep the diference then if it's suppose to be $1100 vs $1400?
              Or will counsel found a way to explain $1400 fee?
              Our 341 is Feb 2nd can not wait
              Thanks
              This happened to my mom's significant other. The BK judge made their attorney refund $500.00 of $700.00 to them personally. I talked to their attorney (for my brother's) and he was stunned as to the BK court's reasoning.

              The attorney had to do quite a bit on the BK as my mom's significant other had a lot of debt from a closed down auction business.

              It will be interesting to see if you get that money as well.

              Comment


                #8
                In our court during the 341's there was an attorney who had overcharged their client, the trustee told the attorney to refund the overcharge within 30 days... to the trustee to be applied to their CH13 case.

                Like everything, I'm sure this is a district specific question.

                Comment


                  #9
                  My attorney charges $2400 for a Ch 7 and $3500 for a Ch 13, saying those are the maximum allowed. I wonder if that varies by district, if the OP's counsel is being questioned on a $1400 charge?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    This is known as the "no-look" fee. Many Districts allow only a certain amount to be charged for bankruptcy cases. These fees are called "no-look" fees. If the attorney charges more than the "no-look" standard fee, they must file an Application for Fees with the Court. The Court will then consider whether the attorney performed more work than is included in a standard "no-look" case.

                    It appears, in this case, that the attorney didn't sufficiently prove that he earned additional fees above the "no-look" fee. The Judge is correct to disgorge that additional unearned fee, and refund it to the debtor.
                    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog

                    Any advice provided is not legal advice, but simply the musings of a fellow bankrupt.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      =viking64;361171]
                      My attorney charges $2400 for a Ch 7 and $3500 for a Ch 13, saying those are the maximum allowed. I wonder if that varies by district, if the OP's counsel is being questioned on a $1400 charge?
                      Those charges are very high, esp. for a Ch 7. Typical Ch 7 fees seem to run about $850.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        =walkthaplank;361134]In our court during the 341's there was an attorney who had overcharged their client,
                        the trustee told the attorney to refund the overcharge within 30 days... to the trustee to be applied to their CH13 case.
                        Note that this was the "Trustee" within the 341 Hearing who made that determination. The demand by the trustee is not final: that would be up to the Judge. If the attorney objected and felt the fee was proper, the final determination would be up to the Judge, after Motion (by the trustee).
                        Like everything, I'm sure this is a district specific question.
                        I would not think so. It lies more to the "judicial discretion" of the Court. Do keep in mind that the BK Court is the last surviving vestige of the old feudal system: the Judge can pretty much do whatever he wants to. Of course, IF you can establish an abuse of judicial discretion, then you can try to get the ruling overturned at the next court up - but that is a very tough row to hoe! (And typically does not work).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by JustFileSuit View Post
                          =viking64;361171]

                          Those charges are very high, esp. for a Ch 7. Typical Ch 7 fees seem to run about $850.
                          I figured as much, but I wanted counsel I could feel comfortable with and this person fit the bill. Watching other attorneys at my 341 (one of whom didn't even bring the petition for signature verification), I'm glad I did. I just wasn't sure if the cap was a district by district figure or national. We also live in a region in which attorneys are paid very, very well.

                          Comment

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