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Are these legitimate expenses I can incur before filing for BK?

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    Are these legitimate expenses I can incur before filing for BK?

    In preparation for filing, I need to spend down some savings. There have been a number of expenses I have been putting off. I want to understand if these are considered legitimate expenses.

    1. Eye exam and treatment. I was diagnosed with glaucoma a number of years ago and never followed up with the treatments because I became so immersed with my business that I didn't have/make the time and couldn't afford/justify the possible costs. I need to get my eyes examined, probably get new glasses and possibly have to go to an eye specialists.

    2. There is a certain exam that men of a certain age need to have done. I have been putting this off because I was so immersed in my business, was fearful of the exam itself, and placed this expense as a low priority given that I would have to pay for it out of pocket (have a high deductible). I think I need to figuratively and possibly literary bite the bullet on this one. I figure that the TT will do plenty of probing as it is so I might as well use this as an opportunity to prepare for that.

    3. Dental exam/work. I have been putting off going to the dentist for a few years. Sames excuses: immersed in the business, not enough time, potential out of pockets costs.

    4. Car repair expense. The windshield cracked recently. The car needs a tuneup. I was in a car accident and the front hood is dented. I have a 10-year old BMW and would like to keep it after I file. Attorney suggested I pay off the balance after filing to eliminate the monthly car payment.

    5. I am not clear that we will be able to keep our home although it is my preference to do so if we can get a meaningful loan mod where they reduce the principle and interest rates. If we were to keep the house, the bathroom needs to be retiled and the bath tub and sink need to be replaced. The house also needs painting.

    6. I need to buy some clothes for interviewing/business meetings. I am trying to restart my business and could use a few clothes (shirts/pants/shoes). The business would require me to interact with senior-level executives at large companies and old jeans and khakis wont cut it. What's a reasonable budget?

    In addition to these expenses, it's my understanding from the research I have done here and speaking with my attorney that I could also take the following actions to protect my assets from the TT.

    7. Food and household item expenses. Is it OK to pre-pay a card for say $1000 at Trader Joes, Whole Foods, Walgreens?

    8. I understand that I can put money into an IRA and potentially SEP account. I told my CPA I was thinking of doing so in order to protect my assets and as a means of working on building a retirement account. I'm 52 and, in principle, believe it's my wife's and my right to use these vehicles for saving. If the spirit of the BK law is to not leave you destitute, then it seems legitimate to me. The question is that if I move say $20K in retirement accounts 1 to 3 months before filing will this cause a red flag and irritate the TT. By coincidence, a colleague of my CPA at his firm by coincidence also prepares the taxes for the trustee. My CPA told me this might piss off the TT but that he, the CPA, was not familiar with the BK law. I told him my attorney said it was OK and that seemed to appease him.

    Questions:
    a) Are these legitimate?
    b) Will incurring them so close to the filling incur the wrath of the TT?

    Thank you

    #2
    First, from what I've read here (which is A LOT), all of those expenses sound fine. The IRA contribution may upset the trustee. I don't know if he can do anything about it.

    Second, it sounds like you've asked your attorney at least some of your questions. Follow his/her advice over whatever anyone here tells you, unless your attorney's advice seems way off in which case you should ask him more questions.
    LadyInTheRed is in the black!
    Filed Chap 13 April 2010. Discharged May 2015.
    $143,000 in debt discharged for $36,500, including attorneys fees. Money well spent!

    Comment


      #3
      I think #7 can get you in trouble if you don't list it as an asset and by listing it as an asset you don't really gain anything by doing it.

      #8 on the retirement contributions could also be a trouble maker. If this amount is far outside your normal contributions for previous years then you can pretty much count on the TT being unhappy. I couldn't find any laws that define exactly how this is handled so it really comes down to how they deal with it in your area. I wouldn't feel safe doing this... if the TT decides to reverse this contribution then you will lose the money. Better to find other safer ways to exempt some of your cash. Like all those other things... medical, car fixed, etc.
      Filed Chapter 7: 06/09/09
      341 Meeting: 07/16/09
      Discharged: 09/21/09
      Case Closed: 09/25/09

      Comment


        #4
        I'd be cautious on the kind of and amount spent on clothing. Get nice things, if possible, but stay away from top brand names like Versace, Gucci, Armani, and so on. You MIGHT get away with the purchase, but could pay a high price in extra scrutiny.

        Otherwise, your list looks fine.

        I cannot comment on the 401(K) and would suggest you only use responses on the forum as a guide to frame the question more properly to your attorney. No one here can really say with total certainty for each and every district and case.
        11-20-09-- Filed Chapter 7
        12-23-09-- 341 Meeting-Early Christmas Gift?
        3-9-10--Discharged

        Comment


          #5
          #7, No
          #8, depends on the amount and how liberal your BK district is with BK planning, at a minimum, anything more than the allowed yearly contribution will be frowned upon.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by HHM View Post
            #7, No
            .
            Just curious...as I sure don't have $1K to buy a gift card... why would it be okay to stock up on food and househood golds using cash, but NOT to buy a card that can only be used for food and household goods, etc. ? (e.g. the gift card to Whole Foods or Walgreens?) It's not like you're going to be able to buy a $500 Gucci handbag at either place....

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by nickifan View Post
              Just curious...as I sure don't have $1K to buy a gift card... why would it be okay to stock up on food and househood golds using cash, but NOT to buy a card that can only be used for food and household goods, etc. ? (e.g. the gift card to Whole Foods or Walgreens?) It's not like you're going to be able to buy a $500 Gucci handbag at either place....
              You can buy the gift card, but it is going to need to be listed as an asset and will be treated as cash. Since it is treated the same as cash, you might as well keep the cash.
              No one would ever have non-exempt cash if they could just buy gift cards, now would they?
              Filed CH13 - 06/2009
              Confirmed - 01/2010

              Comment


                #8
                It is not, strictly speaking, converting cash to a non-exempt asset. The gift card, or more accurately, the money on the gift card is still cash. So you haven't accomplished what you need to accomplish.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by onthebrink View Post
                  In preparation for filing, I need to spend down some savings. There have been a number of expenses I have been putting off. I want to understand if these are considered legitimate expenses.

                  1. Eye exam and treatment. I was diagnosed with glaucoma a number of years ago and never followed up with the treatments because I became so immersed with my business that I didn't have/make the time and couldn't afford/justify the possible costs. I need to get my eyes examined, probably get new glasses and possibly have to go to an eye specialists.
                  Ay yi yi, onthebrink. You've _already been diagnosed with glaucoma but never followed up for treatment???? Not to scare you, but:

                  "Glaucoma is often called the "silent thief of sight," because most types typically cause no pain and produce no symptoms. For this reason, glaucoma often progresses undetected until the optic nerve already has been irreversibly damaged, with varying degrees of permanent vision loss."

                  I'd really like to just slap you silly... but instead I'll just plead with you to PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE make your vision a top priority for yourself?? My mother has macular degeneration and glaucoma, and if I had to choose one thing that negatively affects her quality of life the most, it is the low vision (she is legally blind.)

                  I do understand how overwhelmed you have been trying to save your business and everything else that leads up to considering BK, but you MUST take care of YOU. Please go see the eye doc VERY soon?? And YES an M.D....not someone at the mall eyeglass store! There is a search function at the website of the American Glaucoma Society to find a specialist.

                  End of rant...But this is serious, really! Please attend to this, and good luck to you!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thank you Nickifan for the kind words of support. I'll make an appointment to see the eye doctor on Monday.

                    Comment

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