Confused with the means test.

[sheilaE]

I'm so worried about filing chapter 13! We meet with an attorney tomorrow, but maybe someone can help me tonight.
We are a family of 5. It looks like we won't qualify for chapter 7. I thought it went on ones net earnings and not gross. My husbands net is much smaller then the gross. I'm scared about filing 13 because we've recently started skipping paying our cc bills and we don't have tons left over. We're not swimming in extra cash. We plan on keeping our home and also have a second. After paying those, our expenses are: utilities, phone bill, cable, gas, food, clothing, life insurance. That pretty much eats up the rest of the money-I can't see that we'd have anything extra to pay out? Does anyone know how they come up with the dollar that you pay back each month for chapter 13?
Thank you!

[SMinGA]

The means test uses gross (will explain why in a minute) but there are places to enter deductions to arrive at net.

It uses gross because net doesn't say what one is earning. A family of 5 could have gross of $75,000 and net of $50,000 while another family of 5 on the same gross could have higher or lower net. Depends on insurance deductions, with holdings for taxes, etc.

The payment in a 13 is based on income less expenses. You mentioned having a 2nd. Is your home worth more or less than what you owe on the 1st? If its worth less the 2nd becomes unsecured in a 13 and does not always get paid in full. Meaning what you're now paying on your 2nd can be calculated in what you pay into the plan...

[LadyInTheRed]

To determine if you can file chap 7, try running the means test at: http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/nolo/

[sheilaE]

Thank you for the responses and for putting me at ease! We meet with our first Lawyer in 1 hour. I hope to get lots of questions asked in the allowed 30 minutes

[blockhead]

Another means test here

An easier one too

http://freechapter7meanstest.com/

[Amadan]

why is it that it looks like its going to be okay when i take an online means test, but the lawyer tells me that its not so good? The online one told me my ch13 payments would be around $185/mo. That will be hard but we can survive. The last means test I had to pay the lawyer $150 to do it and he wanted to put me in a 100% payback plan. Said I couldnt get the deductions like I put online. I did exactly what was described in filling it out! Of course if I paid a small retainer fee he would explain it to me, but that would mean filing and potentially paying $1850/mo!!!

[LadyInTheRed]

why is it that it looks like its going to be okay when i take an online means test, but the lawyer tells me that its not so good? The online one told me my ch13 payments would be around $185/mo. That will be hard but we can survive. The last means test I had to pay the lawyer $150 to do it and he wanted to put me in a 100% payback plan. Said I couldnt get the deductions like I put online. I did exactly what was described in filling it out! Of course if I paid a small retainer fee he would explain it to me, but that would mean filing and potentially paying $1850/mo!!!

What kind of deductions did he say you couldn't use?

[Amadan]

What kind of deductions did he say you couldn't use?

The $472 for the second car (my wifes) since its already paid off, costs of health insurance, 401k deductions, the full cost of childcare.
We dont qualify for a 7, so we will be forced into a 13. We have no assets other than a home and 2 cars. Doing the asset inventory of our home at garage sale prices we have maybe $5k or stuff. I am sure if they sent someone they would value it higher, but not by more than another $5k.

He said deductions and allowable exemptions vary by state so the online tests are meaningless?

[SMinGA]

Health insurance, 401k deductions (as long as they are not brand new as in a way to cut down your disposable income), and childcare costs should not be a problem. But claiming a car payment on a paid-in-full car would seem like something you could not do in my opinion.

[momofthree]

You should be able to claim health insurance and the full cost of childcare (assuming you're both working) in any state. That is absolutely ridiculous that he's saying that you can't. I'd find a different attorney. That is bull#$%*