What kind of documentation/proof do I need?

[roxy]

For expenses like pet supplies, vet bills, allergy related food expenses, diabetes supplies for my daughter, many medical co pays, dry cleaning for work clothes, home repairs/maintnance, tolls, etc. Our grocery bill is huge. I haven't even kept track of it, but I would guess about $800 to $1000/ month. Would we need to start saving receipts? We've been using cash for a lot of stuff. I haven't been keeping receipts but will start. We plan on filing in June. We're way over the median by about $40000, but have so many extra expenses. My husband pays $1144 in child support to his ex-wife, we have a household of 6, we're paying for 2 cars, $1350 in daycare, $2200 mortgage and so on.....
If we have to file 13, that's fine, but is it possible to have so many expenses that we truly can't??? I know they are going to scrutinize everything because of our income. That is fine, I just want to be prepared with the paperwork we need.
I was going to quit my job so we could file chp 7, but I can't leave a good paying job in this economy especially since I've been there 10 years. ugh I just want this to be over already.

[justbroke]

Are you both working? I hope that both of you are making over $2,000/month because of the childcare expenses... otherwise it's fruitless. (Had a friend with 2 nannies and found that it was cheaper for either he or his wife to stay home!)

Your expenses are heavy. To the extent that your expenses are for your diabetic child, you'll be able to have an exception for those. You'll need to just document that portion.

In your particular case, documentation will be your best friend! How many are in your family? If it's a family of 4, then the food and clothing allowance is $1,371/month. You would also, easily, get the 5% additional allowance as well, so that's $50 of $1,421/month for food/clothing (and personal care, household products, etc.).

You should go try the "Means Test" over at LegalConsumer.com. That should give you some idea.

[roxy]

We are a family of 6 (including my husbands daughters that we have at least half time). When you say document, what does that exactly mean? Just keep track? Or do we need to keep each receipt?
What do you mean by 5% additional?
Yes, unfortunately, it is worth it for me to work. I would love to stay home with my little ones

ETA- I did the means test a million times and we are always negative about $40. And that doesn't include our school loan and 401K loan payments! I don't know how we could ever fund a 13 plan!

[justbroke]

Just keep track. If you have some receipts, start saving those. Everything helps when it comes to "documentation".

With 6 members of the household, you'll get $1,965/month for food and clothing (including the additional 5%). The additional 5% is a "special" allowance if you show need (like a diabetic child or other special meal requirements).

Wow, you should probably be less than $-40, but $-40 is great! You want that to be as close to $0 as possible. You can't fund a Chapter 13, so excellent!

[loser104]

What about if one uses a debit card for groceries, pet food, clothing, etc. at places like Sam's Club, Meijers, Krogers, Walmart, and Dollar General........?

Would that showing up on my bank statements be good enough to show my actual expenses, even though that does not break down my expenses in categories???

[justbroke]

Yes, a debit card is a perfect tool for traceability!

[LALADY]

The UST may look very closely at your situation. How much is your 401k loan?

[roxy]

The UST may look very closely at your situation. How much is your 401k loan?

The payments are about $600 a month, they come right out of my check (Actually, there are 3 loans)

[Amadan]

Dont know about your region, but here in Southern Texas the 401k issue bit us. You cant count the 401k contributions for the chapter7 means test, so we were over by +$500. On Chapter13 we CAN count the 401k, but that puts us UNDERFUNDED on the means test by about -$160.
After much scrutiny we had to adjust our expenses and will be learning to budget in order to fund a $250/mo 5 year chapter13.

The good news is the lawyer says we get to keep bonuses, overtime, & raises. Not sure if those will ever happen again, but nice to know if they do we might actually survive this.

[roxy]

I'm talking about 401K loan payments. I would be thrilled if we could still contribute to our 401K if we end up going the 13 route, but I wasn't counting on it.
Sounds like you got a pretty good plan. I would be happy with $250 a month payments also. We could adjust some expenses.

[LALADY]

Roxy, you may want to read my previous posts (see my profile) regarding my 401k loan repayment issue. It may become a big problem for you (or it may not).