real estate value question

[jdcat]

And that's why I went ahead with it. I feel good knowing I did my best to be as accurate as possible.

Now if the value will just come in as expected!

[justbroke]

So long as the value comes in where expected, it's not going to be any problem. Short of sworn testimony of an expert, it's the better assessment of value over most other sources.

[jdcat]

I did consider canceling the appraisal because my attorney seemed comfortable going ahead without one but I just have this nagging feeling that I shouldn't let this slide. The appraisal is already completed and he's been paid. I just hope I haven't created a huge problem for us and our chapter 7.

[LadyInTheRed]

jdcat,

Can you cancel the appraisal? If your attorney was comfortable filing without a current appraisal using the lower value, why not give it a try? If the trustee asks you how you arrived at the value, tell him. If he or the creditor objects, then you can decide whether it's worth it to pay for the appraisal. Even if the appraiser started the work, he may be willing to take a lower amount and credit that to a future appraisal if you decide to get one later.

[jdcat]

Somewhat. I've checked our local county assessor site and it will list the sales history for some homes but not all of them. I couldn't find one that was near the same age as ours. I found one that was one year older with the same square footage and it tax assessed at $106K and for some reason ours is tax assessing at $128K and the other home is on a corner lot! It makes no sense.

I've checked zillow for homes the same age and size but the sale prices varied to much. I took about 5 of the homes that seemed to match the closest and averaged the prices and came out to around $125K. But none of them were as old as ours so I was going by location and square footage only.

[NewPage]

Are you able to see/find the sales price histories of other homes similar to yours nearby?

[jdcat]

We didn't get filed, glad I didn't hold my breath. This is taking forever! Our attorney did say that if it was a "certain" trustee that he wouldn't file us until the next rotation, so it looks like it'll be a little while longer before filing happens.

I went ahead with the appraisal. I'll have the results Monday. The appraiser asked me if I had any questions so I asked him if real estate values in our area have been affected like other parts of the country and he said definitely not. He added that our appraisal will most likely come in at the same value as 2007 or a little higher.

If we appraise above $107K we will be over our exemption and it looks like that is what's going to happen. Part of me wants to kick myself for having this done because I could have tried to get away with the $100K guess and maybe gotten away with it, but this is a FEDERAL proceeding and that scares the stuffing out of me. No way am I messing around with trying to get away with it.

Anyhow...I guess if we come out over our exemption this will make us an asset case? I don't believe the appraisal will come back any higher than
$110K (keeping my fingers crossed) so we may end up with a few thousand we can't exempt. What happens in that scenario?

[Tman]

Most appraisals reports are subject to limiting conditions, including:



If she is willing to commit to several hours of extra work for free, she must be hurting for work.

Exactly, it sounds to me like it was a dime a dozen appraiser. The certification Newpage quoted is attached to every report. If this appraiser showed up for free, he/she was only costing themselves money.

[NewPage]

Actually, Tman....yes she will if needed.

Before I had an appraisal done, I explained what it was for and told her that she might (probably not) be asked explain in a court how she came up with value....I asked if she would be willing to do that. Her response was "If I put my name on it, I'll show up if needed to verify it"....and for no extra cost. I asked her about that.

I guess, since I live in Florida, I found an appraiser who isn't a "dime a dozen"....

Most appraisals reports are subject to limiting conditions, including:

4. The appraiser will not give testimony or appear in court because he or she made an appraisal of the property in question, unless specific arrangements to do so have been made beforehand, or as otherwise required by law.

If she is willing to commit to several hours of extra work for free, she must be hurting for work.

[PyroGuy]

Pyro, I am positive that the appraiser will not be appearing on jdcat's behaf for $250.00. It isn't that the appraiser doesn't want to stand behid his work. It is just that when jdcat engaged the appraiser it was for a report and not testimony. Testimony could run into several hundred dollars in additional fees for the appraiser's time.

Actually, Tman....yes she will if needed.

Before I had an appraisal done, I explained what it was for and told her that she might (probably not) be asked explain in a court how she came up with value....I asked if she would be willing to do that. Her response was "If I put my name on it, I'll show up if needed to verify it"....and for no extra cost. I asked her about that.

I guess, since I live in Florida, I found an appraiser who isn't a "dime a dozen"....

[jdcat]

jdcat, the reason I suggest a CMA, even though it is taking money from a fellow appraiser's pocket is two fold. #1 you could spend the $250 and have the report completed in the hopes that it comes in where you want it to and that the TT accepts it. #2 a CMA will probably cost you nothing and if the TT doesn't accept it then you still have the $250 to pay for the appraiser ordered by the TT. I guess I am just looking at probabilities. You could be out $600 to $700 on two appraisals or you may get by with the free CMA. I'd take my chances with the CMA. You really have nothing to lose but could save $600 or so. Plus I don't know that how much the TT or a creditor is really going to bother. Consider how many people file with no idea what their house is worth. You just happened to have had an appraisal in the past two years, most people are not in that position. If it were me, I'd take my chances. You will have documentation from several realtors. That may be all the TT is looking for - something tangible to base an opinion on.

Your reasoning is sound Tman and I agree with it.

The bolded part is what is really getting to me. I can't understand how anyone can file without knowing for sure! It just seems so reckless and I don't want to do that even if there is a good chance our home value wouldn't be questioned at all. I want to cover all my bases.

I think no matter which way I go I'll be taking my chances. My decision though is going to be based off when we file. I found out yesterday that our attorney may file us today depending on whether he can get us and a few other filers all set so he can file us together. Not holding my breath lol! If we get filed today then I'll have to cancel the appraisal, there would be no point because I wouldn't be able to change the numbers anyway. If we do get filed today though I will definitely have some cma's done for the sake of having documentation and save the $250.

Thank you for all of your input Tman you have been most helpful.

[NewPage]

Newpage, you certainly have the facts right. Around here a full fee is around $350. But I'd do non-bank appraisals all day for $250. The reason being is that you don't have to use the FNMA forms, that constrict the analysis absence a fifteen page addendum explaining yourself. Non-bank appraisals are completed using the same methods as a bank appraisal but just don't require pages of addenda to explain the process. I have Appraisal Management Companies call everyday trying to get me to complete assignments at $175 to $200 and then require 24 hour TAT, plus all the addenda and restrictions that simply don't apply to the rural area I live in.

You are also absolutely correct in the appraisal industry being punished for the misdeeds of the government and the lenders.

That does make sense re: fewer forms and not having to deal with all the addenda and restrictions and *hassle* some AMCs bring to the table. 24 hour TAT is ridiculous, especially when you're dealing with rural props and have to chase comps all over Kingdom Come!

Sorry to head off on a tangent, OP!

[ColoradoBell]

I hope you listen to Tman and save yourself $250.
A CMA from a Realtor is going to come really close to the current market and they give you the same or better sales comps to justify the price.

[Tman]

Newpage, you certainly have the facts right. Around here a full fee is around $350. But I'd do non-bank appraisals all day for $250. The reason being is that you don't have to use the FNMA forms, that constrict the analysis absence a fifteen page addendum explaining yourself. Non-bank appraisals are completed using the same methods as a bank appraisal but just don't require pages of addenda to explain the process. I have Appraisal Management Companies call everyday trying to get me to complete assignments at $175 to $200 and then require 24 hour TAT, plus all the addenda and restrictions that simply don't apply to the rural area I live in.
You are also absolutely correct in the appraisal industry being punished for the misdeeds of the government and the lenders.

[NewPage]

That may be the reason. In Florida, appraisers are about a dime a dozen, so you can actually find good prices. My home was last appraised by a person who has been an appraiser over 20 years, and has held a full license, not "apprentice" for that time. I liked him. I paid $300 for my last appraisal.

Oh, in larger/more populated areas appraiser fees stink. We are lucky that living in a rural area, my husband can charge more. He started his business in 1998, charging $400 for a standard appraisal. At this time the base is $425. People pay it b/c it's what everyone charges here. He gets calls all the time asking him to do work for $225-$250. If the *volume* was there maybe that would be more do-able, but it's not. We have to eat too, ya know? What other industry has cut their prices over the past 10+ years? I can't think of any. Yet appraisers are expected to take less and smile about it at the same time.

The appraisal industry is taking the punishments that SHOULD BE doled out to the mortgage industry.