how does my potential bk 7 affect or be affected by my Treasurer duties for my church

[StartinOver]

I am the treasurer for my church. I have signature authority on the church checking account and on some investment accounts.

My name is not on them as an owner, only in the functional role of Treasurer.

I am also listed as an assistant Treasurer for another organization, though I have not been set up as a check signer for that one yet.

Should I or these organizations be concerned? I have not retained an attorney yet, so I have not disclosed anything to the organizations yet, either. (Too embarrassed to do so until my decisions are made, I guess.)

Edited to add: The church pays me a whopping $25 per month for Treasurer, the other org doesn't pay anything, if that matters. And my state is NH and we're under means because I'm otherwise unemployed as of mid-August.

[drowning123]

Is that $25 in cash? Did you include it on your 2008 or 2009 taxess? I'm not telling you to lie, because I see you're a God-fearing person, but no one needs to know.

[ssmdem]

I have a similar question -- same situation -- although my husband gets reimbursed expenses each month, mainly mileage, of about $200. We're including the $200 in our income -- but I'm wondering now if this account needs to be disclosed. Haven't thought of this until now. Kinda panicking at the moment! We're talking quite a bit of money.

[StartinOver]

Is that $25 in cash? Did you include it on your 2008 or 2009 taxess? I'm not telling you to lie, because I see you're a God-fearing person, but no one needs to know.

The question wasn't actually about the income it pays me. I probably did include it in both (it's $300 per year), because I also included it in my HAMP applications since you have to disclose all income and it is income.

The question is about whether having 'access' by being a signer on the accounts for the church will somehow derail my BK 7 eligibility. I saw something about if you were a signer on an elderly parents account it would be a problem. But I am assuming (hoping) that because that kind of signer is actually named on the account as an owner it's different.

On the expenses for ssmdem, normal people's logic would say you don't get the $200 unless you first spend money or wear out your automobile for it, so I'd think it would be something you only have to document by showing the expense reports in case you're asked, but we are talking about a government process here with BK. Interested to see what others with more knowledge have to say on that one, too.

[ssmdem]

We've already been through that with the attorney. It's counted as income. Again, ours is mainly (about 90%) mileage reimbursement. When you're talking mileage, you're making WAY more than you spend on gas, and the trustees know that.

Had never thought to ask the attorney about the account itself and the funds in the account having to be disclosed. I'm guessing since she didn't bring it up herself, it's not something that's an issue. She's a trustee too - so I'm sure if it was something they want to know, she would have mentioned it. Still going to doublecheck on Monday, just in case.

[StartinOver]

Of course you're receiving way more than you spend on gasoline - it was intended by the government to account for the depreciation in value of the car, as you wear out tires, do more oil changes, replace timing belts sooner, etc., etc. If you add up the miles you put on for business in a year (and at nearly 200 a month, your husband puts on a LOT of business miles) and then see what the car would have been worth if it didn't have all those miles racked up, you'll see that it's not just gasoline you're being reimbursed for.

Have you just been saving the reimbursement money in a separate account? Yeah, you'll probably need to protect that with your exemptions somehow. Good idea to bring it up. Let us know what you find out.

Which of course all means nothing if the trustees see it as 'income' not as an offset to the decreasing value of the asset.

[ssmdem]

Well, can't speak for all areas -- but around here, it's considered income. Our attorney works as a trustee herself, so she's already said it needs to be included. It's not going to matter - we're still under median. And no, we don't save it -- it flies out the window, right along with the rest of our income.

[ccsjoe]

StartinOver, because all you have is check signing priviledges and some investment authority, unless you are holding securities licenses or have any connection with credit facilities as treasurer, the answer is no, your CH7 should affect your duties as treasurer nor th institutions/organizations you hold that position for.

[Flamingo]

StartingOver...what you need to do is check any agreements or documents you signed as to your position with these organizations. Manytimes when you hold treasurer or other office positions there are documents you may sign as to your position with the organization. One of the clauses may contain a provision that if you file bankruptcy, you need to inform the other officers. that clause is also quite common in many employment contracts. Review any and all paperwork that you may have signed to become treasurer or in any officer position with your church and it also may be wise to discuss in full with your attorney. Manytimes an audit may occur in organnizations where something is missing and they will check officers' backgrounds in full and a bankruptcy could show up as a surprise to them by you along with missing money somewhere...not a good thing - protect yourself and investigate. Don't assume.

[AngelinaCatHub]

There is no 'legal' reason to worry about going bk and being a treasurer, except what Flamingo stated about a prior agreement.

The stigma of the thing is, you are dealing with other peoples money and in bankruptcy and has a tendency to "cast aspersions" upon you. In the event an anomaly occurs in the books, you would be looked at first.

I would approach both places and address this with those powers to be in an honest, forthright way, and volunteer to resign if they wish you to. Most likely no one would object to your actions, and your respect level of being up front will be most appreciated. Then if some anomaly happens, you have forewarned them of your personal problems and are less likely to be looked at first, for your honesty. 'Hub

[drowning123]

It's not just gas. It's also wear and tear and depreciation in value because of the wear and tear.

[StartinOver]

OK. There were no documents about either appointment. In the case of the church, we're a very small church. The books are entirely open to the membership at any time they want to see them, and very detailed reports of payments are presented to the board every month. They will be more horrified at the idea that I think they might want me to resign over this, than they will be at the situation I'm in.

As to the other board, there's a surety bond on the personnel associated with finance, and my name was recently added to it. I will have to speak up about this sooner than I really wanted to.

This really stinks. Serving these organizations is really important to me. Especially if I'm losing everything else, I'd hoped at least to be able to retain the things that are fulfilling and make me feel like less of a deadbeat drain on society. Well, maybe they won't make me resign, but if they do, then maybe my mission is elsewhere.