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    #16
    I think the prices can be controlled via a single-payer model. What do you think HRx? i think there is absolutely no healthcare reform until a real, actual, and tangible way to reduce costs is introduced. I just haven't seen that yet.

    I'm not afraid of reform. I'm afraid that I'll be paying more... even with the reform.
    Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
    Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
    Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


    I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

    Comment


      #17
      I work in a small DME store. Family owned and operated. It isn't a big business and most of it is Medicare business. That and private insurance. I do alot of the book work and deal with insurance payments. I see so many cases of denials from private insurance companies it blows my mind. One of these companies which was mentioned earlier is the all time worse. They deny whenever and whoever they can. They deny for this and they deny for that. It's sickening. So to me healthcare reform is a must, plain and simple. I see so many good people come in who need equipment, and if Medicare is their primary there is really no problem. Medicare lays it out very simply what they will pay and what their allowable is. And then they pay. Secondarys pick up sometimes, some are better then others. But their is no guarntee, none. I see this almost everyday. I know some think providers like this store are money hungry, but this store isn't. We are in the business mostly to help people, it's a joy being able to help someone, but when insurances don't pay the provider, the provider can't keep it's doors open. It's scary to think so many out there don't realize just how screwed up this system has become. Premuims have gone up, sky high, and coverage has gone down.

      I am not an expert, I am a consumer and also someone who sees what a messed up system this is almost everyday. It is time for a change, and another thing, I think blaming Obama for this mess is beyond rediculous, and to blame him for the bail out mess, we really should remember the first bailouts came before he was ever in office, so be fair. Surely no one in their right mind thought he could change this mess overnight. This mess was started long before he stepped into office and it doesn't appear that anyone before him actually tried to help fix this mess he didn't create.
      Filed Chapter 7 June 4 ~ 341 July 20 ~Last day of objections Sept 18~Discharged/Closed Sept 21

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        #18
        Originally posted by OhioFiler View Post
        We often hear there are 47 Million uninsured Americans. I would love someone to break this list down by who these people are. How many are voluntarily uninsured? How many are temporarily uninsured? How many are illegals? How many are eligible for existing programs? I believe the actual number of uninsured Americans is around 10-15 million. Why can't we look to assist these people without overhauling the entire system?
        My family are part of those "uninsured" and we CHOOSE to be that way. To be honest, all their talk of "requiring" health care coverage and "fines" for not purchasing it make me ill enough to actually want to see a doctor!

        This whole thing scares me to death. We take responsibility for our own health and the health of our children through other means rather than allopathic medicine. We are more health conscious and homeopathic. We grow our own organic produce and herbs, mill our own wheat, get our own milk right from the cow, etc. And we don't take medication. I have no desire to be forced into this system and why should I be punished for it?! Why can't the government just leave me alone?! On the rare occasion that any of us has had to see a doctor, we have a holistic physician who is supportive of our choices and we have no problem being self-pay. Why do I have to change that? We have found that when you tell people you are self-pay, you get a discount. Probably because they know they are getting money in hand and don't have to file paperwork for it.

        I'm sure they'll be many who argue with me or blast me with "what ifs", but this is how we have lived for many, many years and we are happy. There are only two people I trust enough to put my life in their hands and that's God and my husband.
        Lying awake at night...
        Waiting to file...
        Roughly $34,000 in credit card debt

        Comment


          #19
          Why would it scare you to death? You pay for lots of things you don't have to use. (Or at least I do).

          You get "self pay" discounts because you've been able to ask for them in advance. If I'd been uninsured last year, I'd be on the hook for better than $150,000 right now (just medical). My insurance company paid nowhere near that. It's great that you take care of yourselves, but my point is that sometimes you're in no position to negotiate ahead of time for a planned expense.

          I've often commented that if I'd smacked a pedestrian with my car instead of getting sick, we'd both be better off - I had real insurance for that.

          I keep hearing this $1 trillion pricetag for reform being thrown around, and I keep thinking, will United or Wellpoint give us the same deal? Of course not. It sounds like a lot of money, but it isn't, and I don't imagine reform will get any easier when the insurance industry controls even MORE of the economy. Will we be ready when it's 20% of GDP? Maybe we should wait for 25%.
          Filed non-consumer no asset Chapter 7 on 7-12-10 after 4 foreclosures, 7 lawsuits including 2 deficiencies, 2 wage garnishments, a bank garnishment and a partridge in a pear tree. 341 held on 8-11-10. Discharge 11-4-10.

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            #20
            Article I Section 8 does not enumerate Health Care as a power of the Federal Government thus all present bills are really unconstitutional.

            The Constitutional things they could do such as Tort Reform and Ensuring more intrastate competition between insurance companies is not in any of the bills.
            May 31st, 2007: Petition Filed by my lawyer
            July 2nd, 2007: 341 Meeting Held
            September 4th, 2007: Discharged and Closed.

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              #21
              When did health care become a right? If health care is a right isn't food also a right? Shouldn't the federal government step in and ensure I get at least 1 steak per week? Why hasn't the government demanded that the grocery stores not make a profit and provide me with universal food service?

              The truth is health care is a commodity just like every other service in our economy. We have the choice to either spend out hard earned income on health care or flat screen TV's. We can pay a doctor $100 for a routine checkup or take the wife out to dinner at a nice restaurant.

              Life is about choices.

              If the government would get out of the health care industry with all its unproductive regulations and just let the free market dictate pricing we'd see a real decrease in medical care costs.
              Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by JRScott View Post
                Article I Section 8 does not enumerate Health Care as a power of the Federal Government thus all present bills are really unconstitutional.

                The Constitutional things they could do such as Tort Reform and Ensuring more intrastate competition between insurance companies is not in any of the bills.
                One only need know these two points to understand the current "health care reform" proposals are not about health care reform.
                Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by JRScott View Post
                  Article I Section 8 does not enumerate Health Care as a power of the Federal Government thus all present bills are really unconstitutional.

                  The Constitutional things they could do such as Tort Reform and Ensuring more intrastate competition between insurance companies is not in any of the bills.
                  I don't see that challenge holding water in court.

                  Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfarehealth, happiness, prosperity, etc., of a person, group, or organization; well-being: to look after a child's welfare; the physical or moral welfare of society.
                  March 2009 - Filed Ch 13 April 2009 - 341 Meeting
                  Sept 2009 - Confirmed April 2014 Plan completed May 2014 - Discharged!!

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by OhioFiler View Post
                    When did health care become a right? If health care is a right isn't food also a right? Shouldn't the federal government step in and ensure I get at least 1 steak per week? Why hasn't the government demanded that the grocery stores not make a profit and provide me with universal food service?

                    The truth is health care is a commodity just like every other service in our economy. We have the choice to either spend out hard earned income on health care or flat screen TV's. We can pay a doctor $100 for a routine checkup or take the wife out to dinner at a nice restaurant.

                    Life is about choices.

                    If the government would get out of the health care industry with all its unproductive regulations and just let the free market dictate pricing we'd see a real decrease in medical care costs.
                    Food is not the same. We can be sustained on a different variety of foods. You don't have to have a steak to live. I can go make a sandwich and give it to someone. I can't go diagnosing or treating their health issues. That takes licensed medical professionals.

                    Health care is black or white. You either get the treatment you need or you don't.

                    And the government does assist with food - food stamps. In many places you do not pay sales taxes on non-prepared food items.

                    Forgoing those checkups might mean you don't get some sort of malady detected and if you had gone, and started treatment, you'd be free of the malady. Skipping that routine exam, the malady goes undetected and spreads to a point it is not treatable and you either die or have a lower quality of life.
                    March 2009 - Filed Ch 13 April 2009 - 341 Meeting
                    Sept 2009 - Confirmed April 2014 Plan completed May 2014 - Discharged!!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by TooMuchCredit View Post
                      I don't see that challenge holding water in court.

                      Section 8. The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfarehealth, happiness, prosperity, etc., of a person, group, or organization; well-being: to look after a child's welfare; the physical or moral welfare of society.
                      If the federal government taxes you to pay for my sex change operations how is that providing for the GENERAL welfare of the United States? Does the answer change if the procedure is my broken arm? How about my flu shot?

                      None of those activities provides for the general welfare. Each is for my SPECIFIC welfare.

                      I do agree however, that it will never be shot down on Constitutional grounds if it becomes law but not because of the "general welfare" clause.
                      Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by TooMuchCredit View Post
                        Food is not the same. We can be sustained on a different variety of foods. You don't have to have a steak to live. I can go make a sandwich and give it to someone. I can't go diagnosing or treating their health issues. That takes licensed medical professionals.

                        Health care is black or white. You either get the treatment you need or you don't.

                        And the government does assist with food - food stamps. In many places you do not pay sales taxes on non-prepared food items.

                        Forgoing those checkups might mean you don't get some sort of malady detected and if you had gone, and started treatment, you'd be free of the malady. Skipping that routine exam, the malady goes undetected and spreads to a point it is not treatable and you either die or have a lower quality of life.
                        Food is MORE important that health care. Most of us can or could live a long productive life without healthcare. Try going without food for 6 months.

                        Why do you get to decide if I need a steak to live? If you get to decide that I should be able to decide if you need a kidney transplant.

                        Much of what people go see their doctor or visit the emergency room for diagnosis wouldn't need medical attention. People go because it is free or nearly free.

                        Take a look at the Amish community. They do not buy health insurance yet seem to survive just fine. You want to know how? They save money for doctor visits. If the have to deal with a major medical issue the community all chip in to help (via the church).
                        Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by OhioFiler View Post
                          I do agree however, that it will never be shot down on Constitutional grounds if it becomes law but not because of the "general welfare" clause.
                          You have a better shot at it defending (it) on the merits of the Equal Protection clause in Amendment XIV. (Actually, I think Equal Protection actually causes some problems... without a single-payer system.)

                          Originally posted by OhioFiler View Post
                          Take a look at the Amish community. They do not buy health insurance yet seem to survive just fine. You want to know how? They save money for doctor visits. If the have to deal with a major medical issue the community all chip in to help (via the church).
                          Sounds like a healthcare Co-Op!
                          Last edited by justbroke; 09-09-2009, 09:56 AM.
                          Chapter 7 (No Asset/Non-Consumer) Filed (Pro Se) 7/08 (converted from Chapter 13 - 2/10)
                          Status: (Auto) Discharged and Closed! 5/10
                          Visit My BKForum Blog: justbroke's Blog


                          I am not an attorney. Any advice provided is not legal advice.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by justbroke View Post
                            You have a better shot at it defending in on the merits of the Equal Protection clause in Amendment XIV. (Actually, I think Equal Protection actually causes some problems... without a single-payer system.)

                            Sounds like a healthcare Co-Op!
                            It is on a limited scale and it isn't designed by bureaucrats who really have their own power not your well being as the primary motivating factor.

                            I'm a big fan of free markets. Government intervention in markets rarely adds value.
                            Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by BigBoy2U
                              How do you take responsibility for things that WILL happen that out of your control? A responsible person has insurance to cover those things. Health, home, auto.

                              So, I'm irresponsible? Well, then I guess at some point all of us on this forum are irresponsible or else we wouldn't be here.

                              It not really matter of "what ifs" but when. Its your choice, but at some point you or a member of your family will most likely require a medical intervention to stay alive. It generally comes in the form of a 911 call and then from that point you don't have any coverage how do you plan to pay for that?

                              How do you know? And why do you care how I pay for it? Maybe I pay for it myself. Maybe I sell something. Point is, I WON'T ask you or anyone else to pay for it. And I don't plan on taking medical intervention to stay alive. I have no interest in hanging around when it's my time to go. Also my choice.

                              You do own a car? You do have car insurance to protect others? You do have fire or homeowners?

                              Yes, I have to have car insurance. They won't let me have a license without it. Same with homeowners, they won't let me own a house without it. Suppose I could get around that by renting. So is the argument then that they require us to have auto and homeowners, so what does it matter if they force us into health care? I'm not saying you can't have health care if you want it, but why is it okay for them to force something else on us? What's next?

                              But yet if you had a heart attack you plan to pay for that how?

                              With my own money, but, like I said earlier, I'm not interested in hanging around when it's my time to go. People may not understand that, but that's my choice. If I got cancer, I would choose to live out however much time I had and die in my own home. Again, my choice.
                              I guess maybe I'm asking too much to just be left alone with my life, liberty and pursuit of happiness.



                              And to SweetGeorgia, it scares me because every day the government is more and more intrusive telling me what I can and can't do. This is just one more invasion of my right to LIBERTY.

                              I didn't expect anyone to agree with me, but I took the chance of voicing my opinions anyway. Next time I'll stay out of it.
                              Lying awake at night...
                              Waiting to file...
                              Roughly $34,000 in credit card debt

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by DownNotOut View Post
                                [/COLOR]

                                And to SweetGeorgia, it scares me because every day the government is more and more intrusive telling me what I can and can't do. This is just one more invasion of my right to LIBERTY.

                                I didn't expect anyone to agree with me, but I took the chance of voicing my opinions anyway. Next time I'll stay out of it.
                                Do not stay out of it. Your rebuttal was brilliant. We need more well thought out posts here!
                                Well, I did. Every one of 'em. Mostly I remember the last one. The wild finish. A guy standing on a station platform in the rain with a comical look in his face because his insides have been kicked out. -Rick

                                Comment

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