Filing pro se or not?

[HHM]

Umm, when you click into any particular title thread, Pro Se filing, Chapter 7, General Bankruptcy etc, there is a button at the top left that says, New Thread, click on that and you start your own question.

[justbroke]

I understand, it makes sense, advertising sites. I have seen so many urls on this forum that I did not think it was an issue. "Buyer Beware"...ok. So perhaps I should search out a paralegal. Besides, even though I have not, as of yet, figured out how to start a thread on this site. It seems to be a more solid one. I just went through 3 other forums and read a few moderator answers. I know more than they do. But I got the main thrust of that info here. So, I will keep reading. Maybe I will find a way to ask questions in a new thread or maybe I will come across one that's kinda like the questions I have.

Welcome to the Forum. This really is the best one.

You can start any question you want (new thread). Just try to put it into the correct section of the site, as some people only read certain sections. I tend to stick to General, General Bankruptcy Talk, Chapter 7, Chapter 13, and the Pro Se forums... although I do look around somewhat.

You are free to ask any question you like. However, please do not open an "old" discussion because it appears to be like your question. This is discouraged and the moderators will tell you when you do that.

If you are filing pro se then you should ask your questions in the Pro Se / Pro Per section of the website. It was specifically created for people like you and I... and I read and participate in the sub-forum significantly.

[runforcover]

I understand...now

I understand, it makes sense, advertising sites. I have seen so many urls on this forum that I did not think it was an issue. "Buyer Beware"...ok. So perhaps I should search out a paralegal. Besides, even though I have not, as of yet, figured out how to start a thread on this site. It seems to be a more solid one. I just went through 3 other forums and read a few moderator answers. I know more than they do. But I got the main thrust of that info here. So, I will keep reading. Maybe I will find a way to ask questions in a new thread or maybe I will come across one that's kinda like the questions I have.

[justbroke]

I did not nor do I know what "Caveat Emptor" means. I am just looking for answers. I have spent quite some time just trying to ask a question. Can't find a thread to do so. I was unaware of the hostility towards those services. Thanks for your effort, I guess. You folks know of another place I can find answers? Good luck with your forum.

I believe that I was very specific with answering your question.

Again

• Again, I have used one of those services.
• I did not have very good service from them.
• You may find it better to use a local service provider (preparer who is a paralegal).
• It's the site, not myself, that prevents "advertising" from third party sites that have not been endorsed by the site.
• Because of the specific issues with these types of on-line "preparers", the site will probably never endorse or encourage someone to use one of them.
• From my personal experience, this is probably a good thing that they don't.
• Those sites cannot provide any legal assistance, and they charge as much as a paralegal would charge you. Yet, you don't get great support and can be literally stuck all weekend (as I was when preparing mine) waiting for an answer to a "bug" in their software. As a point of fact, they never answered several of my questions -- regarding inaccurate data -- and I had to file after 7 days of waiting for an answer. (Not that a human/paralegal won't leave you hanging).

For those reasons, i wrote "Caveat Emptor" which is Latin -- and I thought universal -- for "Buyer Beware".

As I wrote earlier, it was helpful in showing me what the complete package looked like... but I ended up doing much of the package by hand (fillable PDFs from the Bankruptcy District website).

(Note: all of the forms are available from your local District's website anyhow.)

[runforcover]

My apologies

I did not nor do I know what "Caveat Emptor" means. I am just looking for answers. I have spent quite some time just trying to ask a question. Can't find a thread to do so. I was unaware of the hostility towards those services. Thanks for your effort, I guess. You folks know of another place I can find answers? Good luck with your forum.

[justbroke]

As HHM (a moderator) already edited out your two posting, please read carefully what I wrote above. I really do mean Caveat Emptor when I write it. There's a reason this site doesn't "support" or "endorse" these preparers.

You are better off finding a local Paralegal who does bankruptcy prep work.

[runforcover]

Is it possible?

[I]Is it possible to successfully navigate through a simple chap 7 with an online, full service preparer? If not, then is there a better way to get the paperwork done? I mean, without coughing up a lung for an attorney.
These two seems interesting. I have found good reports in regards to their claims.

[removed URL's, we do not support online doc prep services]

[justbroke]

I used one of these services and they had a similar "guarantee"...

Our documents are always up-to-date and accepted in every bankruptcy court in every state. We guarantee it.

There documents are indeed "accepted" in every bankruptcy court. However, the numbers they used on the documents were NOT up to date.

It was helpful though, in that it did put together the package of things I needed, then I had to go through and modify a bunch of the forms (manually). I don't think it's worth $200 or even $149 for this "service".

Many of these "preparers" are really software driven. They have a website where you answer hundreds of questions. Then the software generates the filing package in PDF format. Again, it was useful for me, but I think I paid $200 last year for the Chapter 13 services.

They have poor customer support and would not even respond to me when I told them there software had the wrong numbers (BACPA Allowable Limits from the UST). They did respond to my other questions related to entering information into their site. They also never responded when I asked for a refund since their numbers were wrong.

Caveat Emptor

[runforcover]

Do It Yourself?

I have read some thoughts on the BK Forum that have me thinking. Does anyone know of these online full service bk preparers? They do seem better than doing it yourself.

[removed URL, we do not support online doc prep services]

[isabella19]

Thats good advise, going to the court house & sitting through cases, just to know what to expect. I'm going to do that!
My husband & I are filing ch 7 but have a small business (no assetts) that we are puting in our ch 7. I am using a para legal to help me with the paperwork. I hope this is a good idea. She has worked for many bk attorneys & seems to know her stuff. Has anyone else that is pro se, used a para legal? Any advise is apprecited. I have also studied this board daily for weeks. When I forst came here I was having a breakdown from being over whelmed, now I am slowly understanding all the bk language.
I am so thankful for this forum.

[CoCoChanel]

Filing Pro Se Yes or No?

I read the post here about filing pro se. I remember back in 2007 when I first started this journey, I found pro se interesting because it reminded me of my legal days in law at Loyola. So for those of you who are comfortable with details, and I mean you are a person who will set aside time, read line by line, document notes and make sure you double check each time you have to appear at court for all documents, I really do not think you will have any problem with the process. The NOLO book was purchased by me, but it did not help me in the lease. The book that really helped me believe it or not was Filing Bankruptcy for Dummies. Beside the obvious humor, the information was dead on. And it was also written the way I could understand it.

Also having a bankruptcy helpdesk in Illinois helped a lot as well. I was taken step by step through the entire process. I did as I was told to do via the helpdesk and I reviewed errors pointed out by the helpdesk person, returned with corrections each time I was told to do so, made copies of all papers they wanted and showed up at court when asked.

Also on my own I would go to the court rooms of other cases and sit in just to get a feel of what to expect. This helped a lot.

Filed July-07

341 meeting Aug-07

Discharged Sept 07

Closed Nov-07 yea....yea...yea....

[dingdong]

Oooh. Three lawyers!

Q: How many lawyers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: Three. One to climb the ladder. One to shake it. And one to sue the ladder company.

[justbroke]

Most Trustees are practicing BK attorneys, so your Trustee may be representing another debtor in their BK case.

And, to make it even more fun, some Trustees, like mine, have one or two staff attorneys!

[dingdong]

"Remember, a trustee is NOT a lawyer and during your creditor's meeting they DO NOT answer questions. They simply present the issues or problems in the paperwork (if any), to which you or your lawyer replies, "Thank you. We will file an amendment."

Actually, the Trustee is a lawyer, you can kind of look at him as the lawyer representing the creditors as a whole. Although he does not actually "represent" them lets say in the case of an AP or other matter, he is their to assure equity in the distribution of the BK estate and to make sure the process adheres to the code, etc.

Most Trustees are practicing BK attorneys, so your Trustee may be representing another debtor in their BK case.

[lizbebe]

Dst1 speaks the truth. I filed Pro Se because I couldn't afford an attorney without waiting several months to save up for one, and also because I wanted to be very aware of every single aspect of my BK; and my sense was that when you get an attorney, you are only partially aware of all of the communication, paperwork, etc. going on.

I used the NOLO book like a security blanket and this forum was definitely a source for all else.

Personal opinion: filing pro se bk requires a lot of time and organization. if you can't devote the time to ensuring you get it done right, pay someone who can.

I agree with soleprop.

I was a pro se filer and it took me months of research and plenty of drafts before I filed for Chap 7. I did rely on the Nolo book, but it did not help me with every single question or issue. I still had to rely on forums like this to iron out some details. Even so, I still made some mistakes and the trustee was brutal with me. Trustees don't make a lot of money and they really hate dealing with pro se filers (IMHO) because they take more time and effort on the trustee's part.

Remember, a trustee is NOT a lawyer and during your creditor's meeting they DO NOT answer questions. They simply present the issues or problems in the paperwork (if any), to which you or your lawyer replies, "Thank you. We will file an amendment."

I filed Chap 7 in 1987 (when I had a mere 12K in debt). Everything has changed as of 2005 and the BK lawyers have the upper hand given the complexity of the current process.

My informal recommendation is for your friend to find a low cost attorney, especially given that there are taxes involved. I had no taxes involved in my BK, did not have a job, and spent hundreds of hours preparing my filing (including all of the reading and research).

Good luck.