schedule j

[justbroke]

Thanks for your quick reply.No I'm not surrendering anything. My case is pretty simple,just three credit crds and a handfull of Dr. bills. I filed an amended J, bringing j's DMI down from $1,250.00 to $510.00,but He objected to that because I did'nt file an amended I also. I did'nt think that was necessary since it did'nt change. So I'm going to refile everything in the morning. This guy REALLY does'nt like Pro Se filers I'm afraid so I guess I'll just have to take it one objection at a time. Thanks a lot for your help.

Many Districts have "unwritten" rules (I call them local customs rather than local rules). Sounds like one of the local customs is to always submit an amended Schedule I and Schedule J together (even it both didn't change).

Many Trustees get a bone about pro se filers usually because their paperwork is not in good order, don't follow local rules/customs, and generally cause more work for the Trustee.

While I don't defend a Trustee who takes a dislike to pro se filers, I can understand their fury. I, fortunately, have had near impeccable paperwork and my Trustee never questioned anything that I did. Is it just an amenable Trustee? Is it just that I haven't hit that wall yet? I don't know. But, alas, I can see the issues.

[lsmartin]

Thanks for your quick reply.No I'm not surrendering anything. My case is pretty simple,just three credit crds and a handfull of Dr. bills. I filed an amended J, bringing j's DMI down from $1,250.00 to $510.00,but He objected to that because I did'nt file an amended I also. I did'nt think that was necessary since it did'nt change. So I'm going to refile everything in the morning. This guy REALLY does'nt like Pro Se filers I'm afraid so I guess I'll just have to take it one objection at a time. Thanks a lot for your help.

[justbroke]

On 5-16-09 You replied to a thread of mine titled " schedule j". In your reply you stated that the law was clear that the form b22c's DMI was used to determine the repayment amount. Could you tell me where I could find the staute that says this? or maybe a site that contains court decisions in regards to this? Thank You for your past posts,you have been very helpful.

Well, the Bankruptcy Code is clear, but yet there are still Bankruptcy Districts that think they can use Schedule I less Schedule J expenses for over the median income debtors.

I either was writing too fast, but there is some more clarity I'd offer. I should not have been so "this is the case" or "matter of fact" about how disposable monthly income (DMI) or payments are calculated.

Most Districts take the DMI from Form B22C and use that as your unsecured payment. However, as I posted earlier, looking at Schedule J is a good indicator as to what your actual expenses are. The Trustee may be trying to squeeze you in that the DMI on Form B22C almost never equals the number on Schedule J (income - expense). Mine is like yours, in that my Schedule J was about $1,200 and my B22C was $56 (my first B22C). I think that's why the Trustee said that I might not be committing all my disposable income to the Plan. However, they didn't even object to my Plan. Probably because they get $530+ a month. If I wasn't paying the Trustee, that $530 would be going to the unsecured creditors. LOL

Remember, Schedule J, doesn't include the Trustee's fee for "managing" your plan (their 5-10%). It also doesn't include payments for arrears on secured debt you're keeping.

Are you surrendering anything?

I would just reconcile the two and just prepare to fight them with all your ammunition.

Did they file a formal objection to confirmation? What District or Circuit are you in?

[lsmartin]

To "justbroke" inre DMI

On 5-16-09 You replied to a thread of mine titled " schedule j". In your reply you stated that the law was clear that the form b22c's DMI was used to determine the repayment amount. Could you tell me where I could find the staute that says this? or maybe a site that contains court decisions in regards to this? Thank You for your past posts,you have been very helpful.

[justbroke]

Many Trustees will reconcile Schedule J against your DMI on Form B22C. However, the law is clear in that Form B22C (which determines the DMI) is what you pay. However, comparing the two forms is prudent and a good test for the Trustee to use.

While I can't tell you to use the IRS limits or use your actuals, everything should be defensible on Schedule J. You may have missed things like hair care, some light entertainment, magazine subscriptions, childcare, car repairs, car operating costs (not repairs) insurance (health, home, apartment, car, life), gifts (reasonable), charitable contributions, home owner association fees, professional dues, mandatory union dues, parking fees, commuting fees (for work), child programs (field trips, school supplies, etc). Schedule J is much more unstructured, so you may not include things that are more structures and lumped together on B22C.

While your Trustee may have stated that they will object because they don't "think" that you are committing all of your disposable monthly income (DMI) to the plan... they "said" the same thing to me at my 341, but never actually objected to my plan! It was confirmed without objection from the Trustee.

As far as the cars, did you take the Ownership Allowance for the cars on Form B22C? Many Districts don't allow that when you own the cars outright, unless the cars are more than 5 years old or about 75,000 miles (don't quote me). Even then, in the Districts that allow this, they don't allow the entire IRS allowance.

[lsmartin]

At my 341 meeting the trustee staff lawyer repeatedly suggested that I seek out an lawyers advice even though and I quote",my paperwork was impeccable and better than some lawyers work He had seen)! He subsequently gave Me three references.
He objected to My payment plan amount of $240.00 a month which I derived from the disposable income figure on the form b22c.
My disposable income figure on schedule j however is $1,250.00 and He intimated that a lawyer could save Me money on this form.
How? I filled out scedule j as honestly as I could with the possible exception of item 8.transportation. I pay cash for My cars and do My own repair work but don't normally keep all of My reciepts,so I only put down what We normally spend on gasoline.
Can You use irs standards on scedule j?