Complaint to Determine Dischargeability and for Willful Violation

[tmoschetto]

I'm "itious", but in this case... litigious and cautious.

Ooooh, I want to play!! "itious"? Surreptitious??? JB is a big tease

[justbroke]

I'm "itious", but in this case... litigious and cautious.

[Goldfish]

Are you a superstitious person?

Or concerned about something else?

P.S. My Census job should be over this week. Only 2 things about it right now. [Otherwise too much to say]
-- One respondent didn't want to give race info today, citing the Japanese internment during WWII. I've just Wikopedia-ed it, and yes the Census Bureau's info was used to locate these people. [Did they have a privacy standard at that time? Did any law condemn it after the fact? Did we just change our rules of practice? lots of open questions]

-- There was some news blurb yesterday about census people climbing fences etc to get their info. I wish I knew the source.

There are reasons people sometimes choose to remain mysterious.

gf

[justbroke]

When might you want to talk about it?

Once the case is closed. Since it's active litigation, I don't want to jinx the current status of the case.

[tigergem]

When might you want to talk about it?

Not til after you pry him with the appropriate quantity of margaritas.

[walkthaplank]

Well, I don't want to talk about it.

When might you want to talk about it?

[justbroke]

What's going on with this, jb?

Well, I don't want to talk about it.

[tigergem]

Apparently I have prepared it so well... there will be no argument. More later!

What's going on with this, jb?

[justbroke]

Prepare the complaint thoroughly and you wont have to "argue" a thing.

Apparently I have prepared it so well... there will be no argument. More later!

[justbroke]

Goldfish, I never directly replied to your query from earlier, and I apologize.

This is not an FDCPA or TILA or RESPA or (insert your favorite 3, 4 or 5 letter acronym for some federal or State consumer protection law/act) violation. This is specifically a Bankruptcy violation under 11 USC 362 with the continuation of the collection of a debt that is dischargeable and covered by the automatic stay provisions in 362. It's that simple.

[koruption]

Sounds good, I will try it. I'm stopping in today to file some other paperwork and a few more creditors that popped out of the paperwork, I'll ask procedurally too to make sure I have the right form and information on it.

In a side note - i didn't realize how efficient our local bankruptcy and federal court is. Our 341 is June 1st, less then 30 days after filing. And our federal court here is so efficient we are hosting a bunch of patent infringement trials for apple, nokia, nintendo, etc later this year. apparently we are a "fast track" district lol.

[justbroke]

You need to do it in writing. I would do it certified mail return receipt and demand a response in 5 days. No response, then you may want to do this by Motion instead of by adversary. I had to go the adversary route because my creditor is non-responsive and they have interpreted the law a particular way, so I think only a trial can get us past the deadlock.

As stated in the other thread, you may want to start with a Motion to Compel Turnover. Depending on your District, you may be able to file this with negative noticing. In any event, it's going to take several weeks to get this through the Court. An adversary proceeding has a 120-day window before any trial would ever start, and the first "scheduling" conference won't happen until 60-90 days after you file it anyhow!

[koruption]

Good luck and let us know!

I am drawing up and filing my own today. A payday loan place that I had informed and given the case # too last week, and that had threatened to withdraw anyway, did so today.

So instead of creating a new thread, i'll ask a question here:
Should I go to the Payday place and demand the money back and say "no harm no foul" (basically), or consider it gone until it is heard in court?

[Goldfish]

Thanks Tiger. gf

[tigergem]

Hi JB et. al.

The correspondence here is so rich, that it prompts many questions but I will only comment on a couple of things right now.

I'm not sure why you would not enter a claim under deceptive or unfair practices. Not following well on this. Are you saying that to accuse them under such laws (statutes, whatever) would be to be saying "they violated BK law"? And that that would engage you in a vastly more difficult enterprise to win? One no serious lawyer would bother with?
I really don't know why this doesn't at least count as an "unfair Practice"-- It truly is unfair. It's an absolute menace and must be disposed of.
How does it really affect anything though? The nuisance phone calls can be avoided, the mail from them can go unopened. Credit report?
Is it that when your case is closed this will be resolved?
What are they waiting for? What do they have to gain? How would a credit repair type place (or related lawyer) get them to stop this. There must be ways. Are they just vindictive?
Only issue then: Which way is the most time-efficient and cost-effective way to stop them?

I do want to mention 3 lawsuits (wherein I'm plaintiff) which I originally listed in my BK petition which I then dropped (upon advice from a couple of Public Counsel people). It is one unresolved issue for me and I'll open another thread.

I'll add a couple of other quick blurbs --
With regard to the treatment of pro se's, as being ignorant etc., I would think of the situation in three terms.
A. Least significantly, I would try to understand the historical context in which the typical pro se filer filed. Were they e.g. typically ignornant and too poor to hire an attorney?
B. I appreciate so much what Brazzy said about the Courts impatience/intolerance of people ignorant of the bk law. There is nothing worse than having to repeat onesself a zillion times (I know this from teaching.)
C. That brings us to having to bear in mind the current state of the economy. These guys (courts?) are so inundated that they are probably overworked as are many others-- postal service, Fed. Exp., etc.

Thank you so much for sharing your joint experiences. gf

Hey gf.

This isn't about jb's credit report. This is about a creditor violating the automatic stay imposed by the bankruptcy filing, which is significantly more of an infraction than FDCPA or FCRA violations.

Most failures on the part of pro se filers are caused by inability or unwillingness to learn and understand and implement FRBP and LRBP. All of the information you need is available, but people don't know how to make use of it... don't know how to use google, much less make heads or tails out of statutes and case law. I read somewhere once that a pretty high percentage of the American population really only reads at about 5th grade level. So that is probably where the problem actually stems from.

And yeah, I can totally see why the judges and trustees get frustrated with pro se filers.

And PS: Credit repair agencies are crap. Stay away from them.