How Does My Schedule J Look??

[BrokeJoke22]

Please have a look at my schedule J and maybe answer a few questions. Thanks

2 person household & live with relatives.

Rent: 150
Electricity & Heating Fuel: 145
Water & Sewer: 25
Home Maintenance: 20
Grocery & Lunch: 454
Clothing: 100 (Too Much?)
Laundry & Dry Cleaning: 30
Medical Dental: 90 (Too Much?)
Transportation: 425 (Driving is a requirement & have receipts)
Recreation: 20
Charity: 40
Health Insurance: 264
Auto Insurance: 110
Car Payment: 450
other: Cellphone(110), Satellite(50): 160

Total Expenses: 2483
Means Test DMI: -608
Schedule J DMI: -136.56

Do you think the trustee will even bother with me after they see my numbers?

I only have 4 more questions I promise, lol:

1) I have student loan payments of $100/month but I can't use them as an expense,
Correct?

2) I received a raise today so I recalculated my schedule I. Another poster explained
I would calculate over a year. Average hours x rate = weekly; weekly x 52 divided
by 12 = average monthly projected income. Is that how it's done?

3) I have no receipts for paying money to relatives could I get a receipt book and
have them back date for a least the past 6 months. Would that be considered
fraud since I didn't receive them when I actually paid.

4) Would I include any past bonuses/other income on my schedule I if it's already on
the means test. Schedule I looks to the future, right.

I appreciate anyone's help and thanks again.

[dumpinmydebt]

Some may argue your cellphone expenses are high. But since you'd still be negative DMI, I'm not sure that will be an issue. $100 in clothing is not too much. Neither is $90 Medical & Dental. I forget where I got this, I think I found the link on this website. But I printed it out because we are also a household of two filing. I'm in Ohio, so this may be Ohio numbers....

Allowable expenses for two are:

Food - $537
Housekeeping supplies - $66
Apparel & services - $162
Personal care products and services - $55
Miscellaneous - $165
Transportation operating expenses - $210
Utilities - $479
Out of pocket healthcare - $120

1.) It depends on your district.

2.) That's not a bad way to calculate your income.

3.) I don't think it's fraud if your relatives wrote out the receipts. It would be fraud if YOU created the receipts. Only do this if the Trustee asks for it. No need to provide this information if they don't ask for it.

4.) Schedule I is future. You're correct.

[BrokeJoke22]

Thanks dumpinmydebt.
I was really worried that some of my things were too high.
I know my cellphone bill is a little high but the next cheapest family plan is only 700 min and only $20 cheaper. We only have cellphones and I'm required to have one for my job. So I know for a fact I would go over so that extra $20 would go down the drain anyway. We don't have texting or anything like that on there so I'm hoping the trustee won't mind.
Also do you think my charity expense is too high. I put $10 in church every Sunday for me and my daughter.
I would love it if the trustee would see my means test and schedule J dmi and not even make me come to the 341. LOL! I know not gonna happen, but a woman can dream.

[dumpinmydebt]

I don't see that $40 in charity is too much. I mean you still have plenty of room for expenses. That could be part of your $165 Miscellaneous.

We spend $100 a month on cell phones. We're negative like $400 in DMI. But we both go to school in a bad part of town, so the cells are a must.

The issue comes when your spending so much on things that if they were taken away, you could fund a 13. But even by taking away your cell and charity, that would only put you at +$4 DMI, which obviously won't fund a 13. LOL!

[justbroke]

1) I have student loan payments of $100/month but I can't use them as an expense, Correct?

Correct. (Unless you can prove some hardship, but that's a far cry.)

2) I received a raise today so I recalculated my schedule I. Another poster explained I would calculate over a year. Average hours x rate = weekly; weekly x 52 divided by 12 = average monthly projected income. Is that how it's done?

Yes, over a year.

3) I have no receipts for paying money to relatives could I get a receipt book and have them back date for a least the past 6 months. Would that be considered fraud since I didn't receive them when I actually paid.

NEVER backdate receipts. That is deceptive. Generally, if you're talking about your rent and utilities, no one is going to question it since you are FAR FAR below the National standards!

4) Would I include any past bonuses/other income on my schedule I if it's already on the means test. Schedule I looks to the future, right.

Schedule I is "current view" with a "lean" towards the future. However, never put "future" income that hasn't been earned yet on a Schedule I. For example, say you may $2,000/month but you're promised to get a $1,000/month raise in 6 months. Your income IS $2,000/month, not $3,000/month. A promise to get a raise, is not a raise... just as a job that you should be starting in 2 months, is not a job today.

[BrokeJoke22]

Hi Justbroke.
Sorry for not writing back I actually had to file an emergency petition Tuesday so I've taken the first step. I'm finishing my paperwork right now and will file it today or tomorrow. I just wanted to confirm(read nit-pick) that for example I received two bonuses one in April and one in August as well as my daughter receiving a pell grant refund in September. I include all this on my means test but I would not included it on my schedule I because it was in the past 6 months and not the current month(i.e. October). I received my raise on Oct 2nd so I would calculate that in as current and projected future income. Do I have that right?
Thanks for all your help.

[justbroke]

You filed after you received the bonus. This really goes to the point of bonuses in general. If you know your average bonuses received throughout a 12 month calendar period (Jan-Dec), then you should average that and include that as "other" income on Schedule I with a note that they are bonuses. Otherwise, the UST "may" see that it wasn't included when they look at your 1040 from the previous year and see more income than indicated on Schedule I. Yes, you would include the raise in the calculation since it is current and occurred before filing. While the UST/Trustee may not be able to tell from your tax returns, they certainly will from your paystubs. Sometimes, they ask for updated paystubs before or at the 341 Meeting. Make sure you know what you need to provide to the Trustee. You may want to call their office or visit their website.

I only say this because you want to be certain that you still have low disposable monthly income (DMI), and that the UST finding a couple hundred dollars here or there, won't push you over the limit ($109.58 or $182.50).

You have 15 days to file the rest of your petition, so take some more time to do it correctly. Run different scenarios based on using the "average" income over 12 months on Schedule I and see if you still are under the DMI limits ($109.58 or $182.50).

[BrokeJoke22]

Thanks JustBroke.
My "bonuses" come in 3 month intervals and range between gross $40-$60 dollars. The one bonus I got that was over that was $102 in February and that was my five year tenure. So I won't get it again for a while. I will try to average them in but I don't know how since they vary so much. I would also have to average in the tax they take from it. Should I just take my highest bonus I got this year (est $70) x 4 and divide by twelve? That would at least include them in my schedule I and show the trustee I'm not trying to hiding anything.

[justbroke]

No, average what you received "this" year. Never take the highest and multiply, as that's not an average of anything, but the "maximum" (or ceiling) value. If they are between $40 and $60, then the average is $50. Multiplied by 4 is $200 and divided by 12 is $16.67 a month.

[Pandora]

Please have a look at my schedule J and maybe answer a few questions. Thanks

2 person household & live with relatives.

Rent: 150
Electricity & Heating Fuel: 145
Water & Sewer: 25
Home Maintenance: 20
Grocery & Lunch: 454
Clothing: 100 (Too Much?)
Laundry & Dry Cleaning: 30
Medical Dental: 90 (Too Much?)
Transportation: 425 (Driving is a requirement & have receipts)
Recreation: 20
Charity: 40
Health Insurance: 264
Auto Insurance: 110
Car Payment: 450
other: Cellphone(110), Satellite(50): 160

Total Expenses: 2483
Means Test DMI: -608
Schedule J DMI: -136.56

Do you think the trustee will even bother with me after they see my numbers?

I'm not certain if it was mentioned, however I know from past posters that live with relatives / other people - that the relatives / roomates income can be / is supposed to be counted on the means test.

There was a huge discussion over this not very long ago.

[justbroke]

I'm not certain if it was mentioned, however I know from past posters that live with relatives / other people - that the relatives / roomates income can be / is supposed to be counted on the means test.

It's only to the extent that they assist the person. Clearly, this person is accounting for the housing costs by including the low rent. Now, had the poster indicated $1,500 a month in rent, when they were getting assistance of $1,000/month, then there would be that issue.

So... to the extent that others contribute to their expenses, they offset the expenses.

I personally see no issues with the expenses as they are because they already account for assistance. I remember one of those threads from 2 years ago. I can tell you that in my District, it's to the extent that they contribute to the household expenses. You do not just add in the roommates income to your income. You would only offset the expense category by the amount of the contribution.

I hope that clears up any confusion about how that works.

justbroke's study guide: See In re Ellringer, 370 B.R. 905. (Bankr. D. Minn. 2007), which is cited by many Districts as a good case.

http://www.kateowenlaw.com/researcha...thlyincome.pdf
Judge Saladino on Current Monthly Income

In re Kimberly M. Ellringer, 370 B.R. 905 (June 2007): Chapter 7 debtor was required to include in her current monthly income the amount paid on joint car debt by co-debtor (and former joint tenant of home.) Former occupant paid debtor $600 a month for car debt and other household expenses, and moved out after the bankruptcy filing. The portion of that payment attributable to the car debt was included in debtor’s CMI as support paid to the debtor; the rest of the money given to debtor was non-CMI because it was for the former occupant’s share of household expenses; income received by debtor from third party other than for the support of debtor or debtor’s dependents is non-CMI. The Trustee’s argument that former occupant’s entire income had to be considered was rejected, and the Court allowed debtor’s use of household size of two to determine the relevant median income because the Census Bureau’s definition required it. The IRS’ definition of household is only relevant to DMI.

[Pandora]

good to know! Just wanted to make sure how it applied in the OP's case as it was quite the hot topic not too long ago. Would hate to get in front of the Trustee and have everything kicked back or into a 13

[BrokeJoke22]

Thanks again, I'll work so more on my paperwork before filing the rest.

[BrokeJoke22]

I don't know if this matters but all the household expenses(mortgage, water, electricity, gas, etc) are in my relatives names so basically I kind of pay part of their expenses. On the means test it says list "Regular contributions to the household expenses of the debtor or the debtor’s dependents, including child or spousal support." I guess(probably, lol) I could be wrong but I took that as if the household expenses were in my name and my relatives lived with me and paid half the bills I would have to include their contributions to the means test.

[justbroke]

I don't know if this matters but all the household expenses(mortgage, water, electricity, gas, etc) are in my relatives names so basically I kind of pay part of their expenses. On the means test it says list "Regular contributions to the household expenses of the debtor or the debtor’s dependents, including child or spousal support." I guess(probably, lol) I could be wrong but I took that as if the household expenses were in my name and my relatives lived with me and paid half the bills I would have to include their contributions to the means test.

Exactly the case when determining "current monthly income" (CMI). You are certainly correct.