payday loan? HELP!!

[michelle1181]

well, I don't think they can get at your account - BUT - if you like your bank, you could tell them that you also lost your checkbook, and what they'll do is open a new acct, transfer $$ to your new account from your old acct and they'll freeze your existing account - sometimes - depending on the bank, what they'll do is for, say 30 days, they'll see if anything tries to come in, and will contact to whether or not to pay it. What this would also do is alert them, so any funny phone calls would/should not be acted upon. If you don't like your bank, open one somewhere else. Since you've had your 341, just make sure you can document (just in case) how much $$ went from where to where.

I really don't want to deal with the hassle with opening an account -- what are the chances that the debt collector can find out my new card number? They don't have my checking acct number, only the cancelled debit card number .

[IamOld]

No -- they don't know it, but to be safe, should I just open up a new account? When I called the bank yesterday, I told them that I missplaced my card.

well, I don't think they can get at your account - BUT - if you like your bank, you could tell them that you also lost your checkbook, and what they'll do is open a new acct, transfer $$ to your new account from your old acct and they'll freeze your existing account - sometimes - depending on the bank, what they'll do is for, say 30 days, they'll see if anything tries to come in, and will contact to whether or not to pay it. What this would also do is alert them, so any funny phone calls would/should not be acted upon. If you don't like your bank, open one somewhere else. Since you've had your 341, just make sure you can document (just in case) how much $$ went from where to where.

[michelle1181]

Michelle, they can pretend to be you and try something funny, but if you reported your card "stolen" to the bank, they ought not be able to...they do NOT know your bank ACCOUNT number right???

No -- they don't know it, but to be safe, should I just open up a new account? When I called the bank yesterday, I told them that I missplaced my card.

[IamOld]

Oh -- one more question. Since I cancelled my debit card that I used, do they still have access to my actual checking account? I am a bit paranoid now and am thinking of closing my account and opening a new one, although I would rather not do that.

The man on the phone yesterday asked for the customer service number on the back of the card, along with the card number and exp date. Since he has this info, can he somehow get access to the actual checking acct itself? Or does it end when that card got cancelled?

Michelle, they can pretend to be you and try something funny, but if you reported your card "stolen" to the bank, they ought not be able to...they do NOT know your bank ACCOUNT number right???

[IamOld]

Hello MIchelle - no the name on the matrix and you listed other names - that's BS - besides, NOW they definitely know because you've told them.

I think if you want you could find an atty, but he/she would probably want to "just" do the AP - mine does it for atty's fees (from the opposition) and 50% of what atty gets in penalties from the other side. I'm sure you'll be able to find one. I would call your local bar association - say SF Bar association, Marian Co Bar Assoc - or Greater Bay ARea - whatever they call themselves and ask for specifically such referral.

If they are not licensed in CA you may even be able to get a referral to a consumer rights atty who'll sue the Cr*p out of them for operating illegally, threatening you, etc etc etc.

And YES file the complaints!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[chicagoannie]

Michelle - I discharged a payday loan with absolutely NO problem (I also filed pro se); the jerk on your phone is a lying scumbag!

[michelle1181]

Oh -- one more question. Since I cancelled my debit card that I used, do they still have access to my actual checking account? I am a bit paranoid now and am thinking of closing my account and opening a new one, although I would rather not do that.

The man on the phone yesterday asked for the customer service number on the back of the card, along with the card number and exp date. Since he has this info, can he somehow get access to the actual checking acct itself? Or does it end when that card got cancelled?

[michelle1181]

IamOld -- thank you for your reply, please see below:

1) are you around a major city? If yes, search on the website of the National Consumer Rights Atty's - http://www.naca.net/find-attorney - I would spend a few hours seeing if anyone would take your case pro bono (for free) OR on a contingent fee basis.
I am in San Francisco. Would I still be able to find an atty to represent me even if I have already proceeded to file my bk on my own??
2) look here - http://www.corp.ca.gov/
AND especially here - http://www.corp.ca.gov/FSD/licensees/default.asp

Check and see if your original lender is even licensed in CA - if they are NOT, then the whole "contract" you had with them is null and void (trust me - been there...done that.)
I checked both links and couldn't find any info on the original lender
3) ESPECIALLY if they are not licensed FILE A COMPLAINT IMMEDIATELY WITH CA DEPT OF CORPORATIONS AND THE CA ATTY GEN'S OFFICE. Sorry for the caps - I really want you to do this!!!
I will look into filing a complaint today

4) make sure you keep ALL voicemails messages from these jerks, record them onto something!
I emailed all the recordings and saved the call logs

5) Now - you say you filed - were they on your mailing matrix? They're clearly aware of the BK - so they've violated the stay - each phone call is a stay violation - see if you can get a BK atty to take them for a few bucks or more on a contingent fee basis - if not, I'm sure many others can assist you here with an AP that you could do yourself...(I do have a format but not from VA that I could PM you).
Both the firm and the original lender was on the matrix. They claimed to never have received it so I faxed them the first page that shows the case number, along with the creditor matrix page that had them on it (I redacted all the other creditors) -- the name on the petition is my maiden name (I have recently gotten divorced) and the name the firm has on record for me is still my married name. I don't think that matters right? I listed all the names I've used previously in the petition.

6) they CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT do anything to you. They are scum. Vampires (no offense to Edward, Bela Lugusi, or any such gentlemen.)

7) the best thing is unless the payday loan outfit IS licensed in CA, they cannot even sue you. If they do, you have an affirmative absolute defense. They are NOT licensed to conduct business in CA - it does NOT NOT NOT matter if they "come into the state" via the Internet, if they have choice of law on their forms, it doesn't matter. Trust me - been there done that. (Zippo v Zippo...1997) - upheld by US SUp Ct in VISA v (forget) in 2003.

[IamOld]

Michelle, (and this is coming from the kind of neurotics :-) - relax. As my atty said, the more they bark, the less bite they have. May I suggest a few things:

1) are you around a major city? If yes, search on the website of the National Consumer Rights Atty's - http://www.naca.net/find-attorney - I would spend a few hours seeing if anyone would take your case pro bono (for free) OR on a contingent fee basis.

2) look here - http://www.corp.ca.gov/
AND especially here - http://www.corp.ca.gov/FSD/licensees/default.asp

Check and see if your original lender is even licensed in CA - if they are NOT, then the whole "contract" you had with them is null and void (trust me - been there...done that.)

3) ESPECIALLY if they are not licensed FILE A COMPLAINT IMMEDIATELY WITH CA DEPT OF CORPORATIONS AND THE CA ATTY GEN'S OFFICE. Sorry for the caps - I really want you to do this!!!

4) make sure you keep ALL voicemails messages from these jerks, record them onto something!

5) Now - you say you filed - were they on your mailing matrix? They're clearly aware of the BK - so they've violated the stay - each phone call is a stay violation - see if you can get a BK atty to take them for a few bucks or more on a contingent fee basis - if not, I'm sure many others can assist you here with an AP that you could do yourself...(I do have a format but not from VA that I could PM you).

6) they CANNOT CANNOT CANNOT do anything to you. They are scum. Vampires (no offense to Edward, Bela Lugusi, or any such gentlemen.)

7) the best thing is unless the payday loan outfit IS licensed in CA, they cannot even sue you. If they do, you have an affirmative absolute defense. They are NOT licensed to conduct business in CA - it does NOT NOT NOT matter if they "come into the state" via the Internet, if they have choice of law on their forms, it doesn't matter. Trust me - been there done that. (Zippo v Zippo...1997) - upheld by US SUp Ct in VISA v (forget) in 2003.

[michelle1181]

Everyone, thank you so much for your responses. This has truly helped ease my mind. Sadly, I do owe this and I fell into the payday loan trap and I am definitely not proud of it, but it is one of the main reasons why I decided to file BK in the first place.

These people are from an office called McGuire & Hummel and they are ruthless!! I checked my voicemail and the same person I spoke to left me another msg last night and this morning -- rambling on and on and on for what seemed to be like 5 mins. He kept saying that it is NOT dischargeable and the fact that I authorized a post dated check, well in this case, a post dated bank transfer, it is considered fraud. He also stated that there is a clause in the contract that I signed that said "I don't plan on filing bankruptcy on this matter."

I filed pro se so I don't have an attorney -- thankfully I have this forum to ask my questions. Who can I report this to since I don't have any representation?

[IamOld]

Guys and to the original poster - Michelle - did they have an accent? You may very well be a victim of an ongoing scam run out of Pakistan - see here for example - http://800notes.com/Phone.aspx/1-888-234-4685/2

As everyone said - a) do not do not do not do not talk to them
b) if you have address/fax for them give it to your atty and otherwise (as Catleg would say here) tell them to go pound sand. Literally.

Even IF you owe this - and this is doubtful if this is even real - it is - as has been pointed out above - dischargable.

[sunshinepa]

You did the right thing in canceling. Incidently, it's not fraud if it's NOT within 90 days of the BK filing.

[justbroke]

Even better is that if this is really a law firm and they debited money... sanctions, sanctions, sanctions! Please stay on top of this.

[nokia123]

I now can see why the Nigerian email scammer/spammers are so successful..

True

[AngelinaCatHub]

I called and cancelled the debit card number I gave them. Since I cancelled my card and not the aactual checking acct, can they still get me? I never gave them my checking account number, just the debit card info. Although he did ask for the customer service number on the back of the card? Does that even matter? I never know anymore with these people.

This is good michelle. None the less, call the bank and warn them that you gave no permissions for an electronic transfer for these people. You did good. Get with your lawyer and tell him the tale. This is recoverable. 'Hub