Thinking about filing Pro Se. A few Q's

[buzzstpoint]

We spoke with 2 lawyers.

One we really liked, 1500 to retain him, the other was 1200 but didn't seem all that interested in our case but would still take us.. He mentioned to me about filing Pro Se, Said it's just paper work and with our case, it's a "Slam Dunk" kinda case..

One mortgage, (almost under water) 3 cars paid for worth about 3000 total and a boat worth 1000. No valuables of any value, and fall well under the WI Median income. So while we save for the lawyer I started looking into the forms.
Then started reading more. Picked up the Nolo CH7 book from the Library. So far it doesn't seem that horrible. A bit confusing.

I've downloaded the Demo of Best Case and we'll see what that looks like. But other then that simply filling out the forms.

Now to the Questions:
Schedule B (Personal Property)
Do they just want the stuff that's worth any money? Like the autos, Or do they really want to know how much clothes, cd's , vcr tapes, pots and pans and tvs we have?

[ttg1]

I'd say that since you have shown enough initiative to do everything you have already done then you have enough initiative to do the whole thing pro se.

Do they just want the stuff that's worth any money? Like the autos, Or do they really want to know how much clothes, cd's , vcr tapes, pots and pans and tvs we have?

You should include everything but list by category. I.e, "Household Goods $500" for example. Only break out something separately if it has significant value, i.e "Household goods $5000 (tv $1000, stereo $500).

[justbroke]

One mortgage, (almost under water) 3 cars paid for worth about 3000 total and a boat worth 1000. No valuables of any value, and fall well under the WI Median income. So while we save for the lawyer I started looking into the forms.

Depending on the exemption scheme that you use (Wisconsin versus Federal), you could have issues with the cars and maybe even the boat. I will not tell you which scheme to use, but Wisconsin only protects $1,200 of automobiles (maybe $2,400 if filing jointly). Where did you get the value for the cars? Also, it's probably $1,200 of a single automobile, not across multiple. These are local issues and knowing how the Trustee behave would be a good thing. Depending on other personal property (furniture, etc), the boat could be an issue as well under Wisconsin.

Schedule B (Personal Property)
Do they just want the stuff that's worth any money? Like the autos, Or do they really want to know how much clothes, cd's , vcr tapes, pots and pans and tvs we have?

Well, they do want to know CD's, VCR tapes, Pots and Pans and TVs. That's all personal property and has "some" value, even if it's $1.

(In Florida, there are Trustee where if you don't list all the particular categories and/or the numbers seem wrong for your type of income and size of home, they'll send an appraiser to your home.)

As already posted, you would group things together. I used groupings as such:

• Miscellaneous Household Furnishing (to list furniture)
• Miscellaneous Household Electronics (VCRs, TVs, etc if value < $1K per item)
• Plasma TV (to list a plasma TV that was worth more and I wanted to disclosed separately)
• Miscellaneous Clothing
• Miscellaneous Media (Books, video tapes, all "media")

[buzzstpoint]

Those figures from the autos are pre '05.
The new figures are 4000, (can be doubled with joint filing.) Homestead increased from 40,000 to 75,000
Household/consumer is now 12,000 (can be doubled)

[Kev1235]

What was said here is right. I will also say I had some property that literally wasn't worth anything because of the horrible shape it was in, and I still listed it.

I will also say that to me Pro Se isn't "easy" persay, but was needed for me as money for a lawyer wasn't even a consideration. Do I feel anyone who can read and has a little common sense can accomplish it with little or no pain? Yes. But would it have been easier on me mentally to goto a lawyer? Absolutely.

The big thing on property as said decide whether you're going to take state exemptions, or are allowed to take federal exemptions and are going to use thpse instead. Also list property value as value you could get for it/it would be sold for, not as what it costs new. This list is obviously to see what you have of any signifigant value.

[justbroke]

Those figures from the autos are pre '05.
The new figures are 4000, (can be doubled with joint filing.) Homestead increased from 40,000 to 75,000
Household/consumer is now 12,000 (can be doubled)

Excellent! I'm glad that your State is more progressive than Florida. Our exemptions are piddly. In any event, I just wanted you to be very aware of your exemptions and the actual value of your property. Make sure you read the exemption statutes themselves -- not a summary -- and make sure you comply.

Again, I remind you to read the specific statute on exempting automobiles, because the Statute may read that it applies to a single automobile... not multiple. (That was the real gist of my earlier post. In Florida, our statute is an exemption "in a single automobile"... not "automobiles".)

Best wishes on a successful filing.

[buzzstpoint]

From what I read.. it's vehicle(s) here's the WI exemption statues on Motor vehicles.

815.18(3)(g)
(g) Motor vehicles. Motor vehicles not to exceed $4,000 in aggregate value. Any unused amount of the aggregate value from par. (d) may be added to this exemption to increase the aggregate exempt value of motor vehicles under this paragraph.
Par d is - Consumer goods up to $12,000

Now with that said, i'm still looking for it.. all the software and websites say we can double those amounts with husband/wife, but I haven't see it in the bankruptcy code. (Yet)



Edit: Found the Marital couple rules:
815.18(8)
(8) Marital property rights. Each spouse is entitled to and may claim the exemptions under this section. If the property exempt under this section is limited to a specified maximum dollar amount, each spouse is entitled to one exemption. That exemption is limited to the specified maximum dollar amount, which may be combined with the other spouse's exemption in the same property or applied to different property included under the same exemption. The exemption under sub. (3) (h) may not be combined with the other spouse's exemption under sub. (3) (h) and applied to the same property.

Sub 3 h has to do with Net Income.

So From my understand in reading the statues.. Autos we get we get $8000.00 and Household is 24,000. and homestead at 150,000. This is using Wisconsin exemptions.

(It's strange, I can't seem to sit and read a book, but I can read statutes)

[justbroke]

Very nice... I like the word "automobiles" and "aggregate". Seems like you're okay.