Biden: Without Stimulus, U.S. Would Go Bankrupt

[Bandit]

It is apparent that you are a hopeless cause.

it is the repeated comments like this that you are typing away to everyone here that is going to get you banned. Insulting people only makes you look bad, not the others.

Do you seriously think that the US Flag has 57 stars??

NO, however Obama thinks he has traveled to 57 states in the USA and that is what Hubs post reflected.

[Bandit]

As I've commented previously, the only gaffe Biden made here was mixing up radio with TV. Please people, if you don't already know it, google "fireside chats." It's just basic-elementary-school US history here folks. FDR gave weekly radio addresses to "comfort the nation." Biden misspoke and said TV. Who cares????? It's not like he thought Africa was a country! Now that IS stupid!

I actually loved Mccains best of all when he said that insurgents were the same thing as iraquis, then he had to stumble back to the microphone and say he meant to say iraquis and not insurgents. There is a man 5 cans short of a 6 pack and you have to love Palin on SNL.

[Bandit]

Yes but did you know, 'Bammy is getting flags made with 57 stars to go over our Capital?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

I thought he was going to be flying a flag with red & white stripes and only one star and one moon in place of the 50 stars. 57 states. LOL he is such a moron and clearly does not know that he is running the wrong country and to think people voted for that kind of stupidity. That was a hoot.

[Bandit]

JR, you are so full of it, and so full of yourself it's amazing.


If you have helped people out here with the technicalities of their bankruptcies I applaud you. But filing bankruptcy has nothing to do with politics, and spreading your political view has no place here. If you want to argue democrat vs republican, science vs coal/oil industry, or real history vs rush limbaugh history, then find a political forum or blog for you to spout off at. This isn't the place!

yes it is the place to talk politics and BK. You dont need a crystal ball to see that politcs and bankruptcy are beyond perfect for this thread. People have been talking politics and bankruptcy for over 4 years here so it must be the right place. Half of your posts are about politics and the other half are about bankruptcy.
Why is it ok for you to spread your political views but no one else can post theirs?

[AngelinaCatHub]

As I've commented previously, the only gaffe Biden made here was mixing up radio with TV. Please people, if you don't already know it, google "fireside chats." It's just basic-elementary-school US history here folks. FDR gave weekly radio addresses to "comfort the nation." Biden misspoke and said TV. Who cares????? It's not like he thought Africa was a country! Now that IS stupid!

Yes but did you know, 'Bammy is getting flags made with 57 stars to go over our Capital?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpGH02DtIws

[AngelinaCatHub]

Another parallel of the rise of the Third Reich, and our Country: In the '20's and 30's, what got Germany out of it's depression? What got the United States out it's depression? Remember the Depression was World wide. Here is what got Germany out. They printed money to pay WWI reparations with worthless script. They were forbidden to manufacture war materials. After the Kaiser died, A. Hitler in his extremely good rhetoric and gift of speech and the ability to know what people wanted to hear, made a "change they could believe in". It was call pride as Germany was decimated in WWI. He brought a new pride of Country and started to design super machines. Aircraft far superior to the United States. His panzer tanks were better than anything we could make even after we entered the war. The uniforms were designed to be the most eloquent in the World and if you looked at any officer, the air of total authority was advertised in his cloths. The nation became successful in pulling itself out of a depression. As the nation became more powerful, A. Hitler declared he wanted the "Fatherland" back into Germany. The war machine put full employment back due to a revamping of the currency and factory's producing weapons, the Country became a worry for the rest of the World. But, all he wanted was the Rhineland and it was allowed that he could take it. But, Poland, yes, a weak country bordering, was lusted after for it's value. But, England had wonderful speakers too. They sent over the leader Neville Chamberlain who could talk any leader into loving him and peace. So, "Peace in our time" with a smile (no teleprompter though) and holding a signed paper above his head in victory that eternal peace and prosperity was talked into Hitler by this smooth talker. Not long after, a super fighter/dive bomber called a Messerschmidt in near vertical dives dropped very accurate bombs on Poland. In days it fell. BTW a siren was actually put on that plane that gave it it's distinct terrifying sound in a high speed dive.

Now, the U.S. was still in a depression. What brought it out? Well it actually started with lend lease when war was declared against France and England. Frances' war machine was mostly white flag manufacturing, and Britain had old airplanes and not much more, so the U.S. leased (with a promise to pay) equipment and our war machine went into service manufacturing product for alleys. What really got us going, was the fact that we went to war. Remember, Japan attacked us. NOT Germany. So why did we declare war with Germany and concentrated our forces in that theater of war the most? Remember Iraq? Sound familiar? Perhaps Bush knew and still knows more than he told? Well anyway, the depression was taken down due to a huge draft and many unemployed were taken off the streets and the older plus female work force started to build equipment. The economy boomed. Certain luxury taxes were put in and rationing as well. Excise taxes a "temporary" war tax still on many items today. I believe just removed from tires. Jewelry still has it. Once the war was won, much new war equipment was ditched into the ocean as its sale would offset peacetime economy for civilian cars. Soldiers came back and a new industry appeared. Levitt houses. A one size fits all tract house and affordable. My parents purchased a tract house in '49 for $4200. Still is standing and is valued now with modernizing at about $200K. The fifties was the decade of extreme prosperity. Mothers stayed home from the factories and we had the quintessential '50's "Leave it to Beaver" type of families. Then the '60's and the cold war and Viet Nam. Taxes started going up and the Mother took to work to help pay more taxes and to progress in the prosperity they were used to. The turmoil of the 60's and 70' gave us the new generation of reckless abandonment, free love, Timothy Leary and LSD. You know, the generation of Clinton. That one. Now remember the Dem's were in at that time. First JFK, the LBJ, and the war was lost by the time Nixon got in and we surrenderd that war. From that slippery slope, we are now full circle, about to go into hyper inflation (give it a year) and we sure do have a slick speaker who just is adored by many Muslim Country leaders as well as Latin American Dictators, and he loves them too. But, he can talk peace and prosperity out of them. After all, he has better and more modern tools than Neville Chamberlain. He has teleprompter. And.....the wheel goes 'round and 'round.

My opinion. 'Hub

[Flamingo]

Joe Biden was the one that told us FDR comforted a nation on TV. FDR died in 1945, TV became relevant in late 40's.

It's almost as bad as Al Gore inventing something.

We've all stuck our foot in our mouths at times and to do so in front of TV cameras, audiences and microphones makes it a bit tougher for any celebrity, politician, etc. Also politicians have speech and other writers who give them their information/speeches/talks. Who knows if that information actually came from him? :-)

[Flamingo]

Flam, you seem like a good honest person. Please don't "feel bad for these people". Not only did they ALL somehow cause the problems but those you feel bad for knew what they were getting into.

Only a politician can make a statement "America will go bk if we don't borrow and spend". What an insult to us all.

Thank you Banca Rotta but I am a "take in the big picture" person and somewhat of a realist. Basically, these are elected officials by us doing what we want them to do. While there are some of us who don't agree withi what they do, there is the other half that does. Complaining and griping does not get anyone anywhere. The place where it matters the most is in the voting booth hoping your little vote will work for what you feel should be done. Everyone complains after every election about the newly elected President, VP and on down the road into one's own state. Most of this mess started during the Bush administration and was allowed to get way out of hand by the time of the election last year. Someone's gotta fix it...and no matter what is done, it will get criticized. You can't fix a large gaping wound with bandaids. There is no easy fix to the mess we are in now. People want immediate action and everything back in place tomorrow.

[Flamingo]

It is very easy to sling mud at Bush/Cheney, there are so many things to blame them for. But when my lawyer told me to google Joe Biden and how he was one of the great promoters of the 2005 Bankruptcy Reform Act, I was shocked. My lawyer is as liberal as they come, but one of Biden's biggest financial backers was MBNA (BofA).

It is safe to say that they all support whoever lines their pockets.

Great senators make sure their home states are taken care of. His home state, Delaware, is the biggest corporate headquarters and banking mecca in the US so anyone in politics in that state is going to lure big business so they incorporate and do business in the state. I don't think he did it to line his or anyone else's pockets, the benefits go to state government.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Adding to that, if you look back into History, it was inflation that ushered A. Hitler into power. His promises of equality, a chicken in every pot, a bug like car in every drive and of course renewed pride after the First World War. They called it Nationalism. Later to be called National Socialism. Shortened to NAZI an acronym. Our current Reich is about the most deceitful lying outwardly without conscience I have witnessed in my many years. The President in less than six months has taken our Country further to destruction that thirty years of the cold war. Nikita Khrushchev may be holding his shoe in his grave with "I told you so" in a ghostly mist over his body. He said, (not verbatim) "we will bury you. It won't be with missiles or bombs, but you will fall from within".

The Soviet Union (a consortium of several Countries, call them states) fell as Reagan out spent them on military defense. They went bankrupt. The Countries pulled out of the 'Union' and Russia became Russia again, a single nation state instead of the head of the largest Country in the World. It fell of it's own weight.

We are going their route. If the government can make us all dependent on it for our food, health care, fuel, and bring us into poverty, stop luxury travel (the rides on the weekend) then take our guns (as in Germany), they will have total control. This is what they live for now. Power. Biden is probably the most honest of the bunch in his stupidity to not shut his mouth. (out of the mouths of babes.....) Biden has given a bit of the secret away at every moment of speech he makes.

The opposition party (Reps) are being purchased as well as intimidated and will pull the Socialistic line as well. I believe that those currently in D.C. are terrified of 'Bammy, and I mean in fear of physical harm if they do not do his bidding.

I too am in fear, as I am old enough to remember 48 stars on our flag, now we have 57??.

Those who have not learned by History will repeat it. I see the rise of an emperor. My opinion. 'Hub

[AngelinaCatHub]

It's the only thing to fix the nation, our economy over the last 30 years has been primarily a lie. We sold our future (that is today and the next decades to come) for a short term gain. It was all built on money we did not have and could not repay.

Adversity and hardship are the greatest teachers. I had a couple of great aunts, neither of whom made much money in life but when they died they had a considerable amount of money saved up. They had grown up in the depression. They did not believe in debt of any sort. They considered it a great sin. So they lived below their means and saved all their lives. Thus they had enough to do themselves for their lifetime even after retiring (and they lived about 20 years after retiring). They also died debt free. I wish my parents generation had learned from that generation and passed it on to my generation, but that did not happen. Some lessons must be learned by oneself and the handling of money is one of those.

I'm sorry, I have to agree with JR. The current and previous "hippy" generation was born of the "Great Society" a 'guns and butter' attempt at purchasing votes with giveaways. It was ushered in by LBJ. Not picking on Dems, the Reps are extremely hypocritical as well.

I remember old televisions (my Mother worked at Motorola on an assembly line) They were built by humans. If broken Dad took the tubes down to the drug store to test. Now if a TV goes out, it is usually lightning and you toss the thing away and for 80 bucks pick up a new one. My first VCR weighed 60 pounds and cost 800 bucks. If it broke I would pay to have it fixed. Now you toss it and get a new one (or DVD) for $29 at WallyWorld. Amana Radar Range, remember those? The first microwave oven. Cost big bucks. I pick up microwave ovens along the road on garbage day. I have six now in my garage. They all work and because someone wanted a newer model, they just discard a perfectly good unit. I give them away to people who cannot afford one. We are a throw away Society, including our own children who are latch keyed and we let the government schools babysit them. They sure are not teaching anything. We throw away our future with termination of life considering it is no more trouble to abort than to purchase pills.

I do have to agree with JR. Our values have gone to pot, and I believe a bit of tough love for this Country is appropriate, and I think we are going to get it. Rough times are being orchestrated right now. The plan may just be on purpose. Only my opinion. 'Hub

[JRScott]

JR, you are so full of it, and so full of yourself it's amazing.

You talk in absolutes like you know all. Have you got a crystal ball, a PhD in economics, or both. You speak like the end of the world is near. I won't even argue the global warming thing. It's the typical paranoid-conspiracy-theory-liberals-are-out-to-take-over-the-world BS that justifies no response whatsoever.

If you have helped people out here with the technicalities of their bankruptcies I applaud you. But filing bankruptcy has nothing to do with politics, and spreading your political view has no place here. If you want to argue democrat vs republican, science vs coal/oil industry, or real history vs rush limbaugh history, then find a political forum or blog for you to spout off at. This isn't the place!

Then stop spewing your own political garbage, everything you quoted I that I posted before was directly related to why we are going bankrupt as a nation. Which is relevant to a forum dedicated to bankruptcy. Our nation cannot survive as it has for the last 30 years, we simply do not have the money to continue to do so. You see unlike yourself I actually read the Budget Report yearly, and I'm pretty sure that we can't afford it based on the Office of the Presidents and Congressional Budget Offices own projections.

You realize that Abraham Lincoln and Andrew Jackson as well as many of the 19th century Presidents didn't have college degrees. However they were 2 of the most feared lawyers in their areas, as they were self taught.That's the beauty of America's system. If your willing to work hard you can do immensely well, if however you just want to do enough to get by you can. The perversion of that beauty has been FDR's New Deal programs as well as the continuation of those ideals by various President's and Congress's since. FDR of course didn't really start the progressive movement. That would have been Woodrow Wilson.

You don't need a PhD in Economics to see the writing on the wall if you bother to study. Really all that is needed is a very basic understanding of Economics and a willingness to study it out yourself without relying on the corrupt media we have today. Our current situation is unsustainable.

Keep in mind Abraham Lincoln also went bankrupt at one time, as did Ulysses S. Grant. William McKinley had a business bankruptcy as well.

If we want to advert a Federal Bankruptcy the first key is a full and complete audit of the Federal Reserve Bank by the GAO which has not been conducted since it was created. It is the Constitutional Duty of Congress to oversee monetary matters in our Nation but they have failed in that responsibility for decades. See the USA doesn't print money the Federal Reserve does and then loans it to us just like the Bank of the United States used to do. Without oversight the Federal Reserve has become to close to the institutions that it is suppose to help regulate to the point it is practically worthless. After a full and complete audit which I think would turn up stuff that would make the accounting of Enron look good we should seize the bank in National Interest closing it and moving the money to state banks and local banks not the national banks just as Andrew Jackson did.

The next step is the hardest for Americans but we must learn to do with less. We should go through all Federal Programs and anything that is not an enumerated right spelled out in Article I Section 8 we should eliminate. This will be hard and the President and Congress that does it will probably only serve 1 term but they would leave a lasting legacy of potential prosperity. Initially taxes could not be lowered but all savings from the elimination of such programs would be used to apply to the national debt and eliminate the debt as quickly as possible. It would still take about 10 years to pay off the debt assuming the next President and Congress doesn't reverse the action. There is of course nothing to stop the States themselves from implementing similar programs on the State level, in fact that would have been better than what we have today on the Federal level, we've tried a one size fits all solution and missed the wisdom of the Founding Fathers who realized that each of the states were different in makeup and thus it was more prudent to allow them to manage much of their own affairs.

We must also realize that it is not our duty nor our responsibility to police the world. We simply do not have the funds to do so. You cannot bring democracy and peace to a nation that is not willing to fight for it themselves. It was a major flaw of GWB's foreign policy. We should recall all our troops from foreign soil to the United States, use them to reinforce our border guards and our coastal patrols. Probably cut down their size. Prior to the Spanish American War our nation practically disbanded its military at the end of each war.

If we fail to make these changes then we are headed towards national bankruptcy. Will it mean the end of the United States, no. But it will mean a great deal of hardship for many many people, particularly the poor and the elderly who have for so many years been dependent on the Federal Government when they should have been leaning on family, community, and organizations they belong to (religious or otherwise). We have raised almost 2 generations that have a mindset of entitlement from the Government when that was never intended or prudent. The government cannot provide everything for everyone unless it first takes everything from everyone.

We must also look after our manufacturing. While running for President, BHO promised to renegotiate the various trade treaties that the previous administrations had negotiated which were grossly unfair to America. Six months into office he has not done that nor has he attempted to. He has spent time in 14 nations and not once breached the subject. We need those trade deals changed or we can never rebuild our national manufacturing base. Without a manufacturing base we cannot provide sufficient jobs for our population.

Even the President not to long ago said we were Bankrupt as a nation, we are out of money. We must make what to many are radical changes if we are to avert the greatest disaster of our nation, one not made by any foreign government or entity but one of our own making.

[JRScott]

When I was at work some years back I was having a conversation with a concrete truck driver who was about to pour concrete at a project I was working on. It was about a month or two after 9/11 as I recall. I don't remember the exact dialogue, but we were basically discussing what Bush was doing, the new found nationalism, our new war in Afghanistan, and all that kind of stuff. I then expressed to him something along the lines of "I just hope they do what needs to be done to never let that happen again." The concrete truck driver then said "I hope we do get hit again, just to teach all the liberals a lesson! Hopefully it will be even worse than 9/11! That way the liberals will learn that we must do everything and anything to destroy Al Quaeda!" At this point, I walked away.

You remind me of that concrete truck driver quite a bit JR Scott. So basically you're saying let's just sit back, do nothing, and allow a bunch of innocent lives to be utterly destroyed just so we can teach our fellow citizens a lesson. Whatever guy. That's quite a solution there! Let's turn our country into a cess pool for years and years just so we can learn a good hard lesson. Great idea! I suggest you do a little research into what the Great Depression was like.

With your logic, we shouldn't even have bankruptcy. We should just be forced into a prison labor camp to work off our debt, no matter how long it takes or how terrible the consequences. We have to learn a hard lesson, right! No, sorry JR, fortunately we live in a civilized society. Of course, you've already been through your bankruptcy, so what would you care.

Very sad your mind.

I'm well aware of what the Great Depression was like.

I know a good bit about American History, Do you know what made the Great Depression the Great Depression in the United States, whereas the rest of the world only had a Depression? Do you know why it last for a decade in the United States? FDR. His policies of an overreaching federal government led to the Great Depression. BHO is repeating those same mistakes today even as GWB was in the last year of his administration.

Do you know the last time the United States was debt free? Andrew Jackson was President then. He is the only President to ever pay off the national debt and he did it by closing the Bank of the United States which was very similar to our current Federal Reserve Bank and moving the nation's deposits to local and state banks.

Bankruptcy is a Constitutional Right, Article I Section 8 of the United States Constitution.

The faster you hit the bottom in any economic downturn the faster you return to an uptick. That is historically proven. The more you meddle with the natural progression of ups and downs of the economy the more you draw out the process and the more you cause harm. This is true in every nation, not just America.

You see all these stimulus, TARPS etc are meaningless because they do not fix the undercurrent of the problem. The Problem is Americans have been spending more than they earn and they've been doing it for decades, in their personal lives, in their businesses and in their governments. We need to hit bottom now before it is to late and make changes to our governmental programs. Without them we are looking at total economic collapse in 10-15 years because we simply will not be able to fund the entitlement programs we have then, not even at 100% tax rates. You may have heard of Obama's matra, Now or Never on National Health Care. The reason is because he knows if he doesn't get it passed now the American people will realize they can't afford it. Every state in the Union that has tried it has come close to bankruptcy.

Cap and Trade and National Health Care as they are in Congerss today will bankrupt our nation. What good is a National Health Care program today if you have to cancel it in 5 years because you can't afford it? What good is Cap and Trade when every nation that has tried it has suffered high unemployment and no net effect on emissions....Europe's had the system for years. It doesn't work. (Not only that but Earth is only returning to its average mean temperature.....before the Holocene period the Earth was much much hotter than it is today). Global Warming is a fear tactic meant to enrich certain people, for example in the last decade Al Gore's net worth has increased 5000%. We can't stop the Globe from warming. What we could do is begin serious space exploration, many scientists for decades have argued we need to be a two planet species if we are to survive as a global catastrophe on one will not affect the other.

When the Federal Government goes bankrupt you will be looking at the elimination of all the entitlement programs. Welfare will be gone because they can't afford it. I look at the current stringing of people along for short terrm political gain as worse than being honest and ending programs that were bad ideas to begin with. While there are certainly people who need outside assistance, that assistance should come first from family, then local communities and churches not the federal government. There are a great number who abuse the system, who are fully capable of working but chose not to so that they can just siphon off of everyone else.
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[Bandit]

When I was at work some years back I was having a conversation with a concrete truck driver who was about to pour concrete at a project I was working on. It was about a month or two after 9/11 as I recall. I don't remember the exact dialogue, but we were basically discussing what Bush was doing, the new found nationalism, our new war in Afghanistan, and all that kind of stuff. I then expressed to him something along the lines of "I just hope they do what needs to be done to never let that happen again." The concrete truck driver then said "I hope we do get hit again, just to teach all the liberals a lesson! Hopefully it will be even worse than 9/11! That way the liberals will learn that we must do everything and anything to destroy Al Quaeda!" At this point, I walked away.

You remind me of that concrete truck driver quite a bit JR Scott. So basically you're saying let's just sit back, do nothing, and allow a bunch of innocent lives to be utterly destroyed just so we can teach our fellow citizens a lesson. Whatever guy. That's quite a solution there! Let's turn our country into a cess pool for years and years just so we can learn a good hard lesson. Great idea! I suggest you do a little research into what the Great Depression was like.

With your logic, we shouldn't even have bankruptcy. We should just be forced into a prison labor camp to work off our debt, no matter how long it takes or how terrible the consequences. We have to learn a hard lesson, right! No, sorry JR, fortunately we live in a civilized society. Of course, you've already been through your bankruptcy, so what would you care.

That is what you said. Not even close to what JRScott said. Your whole post is really rude for not knowing him.

and, If he did not care he would not still be here helping hundreds for free & comforting others as they go through their BK.

[Bandit]

Joe Biden was the one that told us FDR comforted a nation on TV. FDR died in 1945, TV became relevant in late 40's.

It's almost as bad as Al Gore inventing something.

TV has been around being broadcasted on in 1928. I compare Bidden more to McCain, both with 2 left feet.