question about your opinions on social welfare

[rilbrianne]

I have a question and it may start something but lets try to keep it nice...

There are lots of people who receive welfare for one reason or another, my husband and I receive food stamps to help feed our family. My husband works at a factory and I am trying to get a degree. I stay home with my girls because daycare costs would defeat the purpose of a paycheck for me, especially in this area... small town in Michigan.

Why do I keep hearing people say that people on welfare are "abusing" the system? Why do people think we all sit on our behinds letting the government take care of us. Do those of us who are temporarily on welfare deserve the harassment? I can't say I do now (husband does), but other than when I've been home with my girls (2 yrs non-consecutively) I did pay taxes, social security, etc.

I just want your honest opinion, try to get your point across without harsh words... thanks in advance. I'm just tired of being dumped on. We are trying to make things better for our girls.

[woohoogirl]

I personally believe if somebody is going to help you out, then you should take it (as long as it's not illegal). I would imagine that the people are talking about people abusing the system are ones that have probably lead an easy life. I would assume that they never were in dire need of necessities. Look at your situation, if you didn't have food stamps, you'd be forced into deciding whether or not you could eat or have heat or water. I'll admit I was one of those that thought anybody on welfare was "working the system", BUT that was before the cold hard reality of life smacked me in the face.

You don't know what someone goes through until you've walked a mile in their shoes. I think people are quick to judge. I'm glad that you can feed your little ones. You might have a future medical researcher.

[arkienurse]

I have no problem with people who need a short term helping hand from the government. I have a problem with people who expect to always have that aid, and make no effort to better themselves, and keep having more children, knowing they can't afford them.
You are going to school, you will not always need this help. I am glad it is there to help you over a rough patch.
I found myself in need of help when I learned I was pregnant with DD1. We had no insurance, and birth control failed. I am deeply grateful to everyone whose taxes made my doctor visits possible. But I had the norplant implants at my 6 week visit. I made sure the next one was on my own terms.

[rilbrianne]

Thanks, it makes me feel better. I know OF a couple who were constantly on welfare, here you have to participate in work programs to be eligible for assistance...well, these people never had to because they had been in the system for so long that apparently the new rule never applied to them... anyway, SEEMS like they had a new child every time an older child hit 18 and they lost assistance for that one. Those are the kinds of people who should be dumped on. But I take it personally when I hear anyone knock low income families. Not everyone was raised the same, had the same opportunities, not everyone chose education over family... I had my family first, then realized I should further my education. But you know, I don't expect the state to pay for my children. I AM happy that it's there when I need it though. Anyone would be, even those who oddly find themselves in this predicament.



Thanks again for listening and for your input

[krielly]

It's too bad that there is such a "stigma" about welfare.

Unfortunately, those that do abuse the system ruin it for those who just need a helping hand until they can get back on their feet.

I have no problem with welfare as "assistance", but as a permanent support is where I have a problem with it.

When my son was a baby, I worked 2 jobs, as my income was a lot lower back then. I was fortunate, and had a husband to watch him while I worked my second job.

I watched many other young woman in my situation go to school, learn a trade, take technical training......all while the state paid their training and daycare. Unfortunately, I also watched some of these same women who took advantage of these programs never do anything with their skills after the program. Here I was unable to go back to school, as I had to work, and others were getting the benefit of higher education, or a vocational skill/trade, and doing absolutely nothing with it afterwards. YES that irked me!!!!

I once had a discussion with a neighbor whose girlfriend was on welfare. He asked me what I thought about the "system". I told him I thought it was fine, but should be temporary. His response? "It IS temporary.........it's only till they're 18"......
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have also seen friends who have taken advantage of these benefits, and turned their lives around. I have nothing but the upmost respect for these folks, and do not have an issue with that.

As another poster mentioned, I've seen people keep having children to raise their benefits, when they can't afford the ones they already have. That is a big bone of contention for me!!!!! I work for the government, and no one "upped" my paycheck when my son was born. Yes, sorry, I do have an issue with this.

Sounds like you are on the right path, and I'm truly glad there are programs to help you further your education, and make a better life for you and your family! Bravo to you for wanting that for yourself!!!!!!!!!! Best of luck to you in your future.

K

PS: Its very sad that there is such a stigma about "welfare" (because of those few who milk the system) - so much so that it prevents good folks who really need the assistance from applying for it. That's EXTREMELY sad IMO.

[325Falcon]

We can be a compassnite people without haveing genations of families on the system.

We hear a lot of talk about the ilegals doing work that Americans will not do well I say hunger is a strong motivator.

[BKcrazy]

I think it's a good program to help get you on your feet. In one state I qualified for Medicaid, but not food stamps. In this state, I can get Medicaid unless I'm pregnant or have a kid, but I can get food stamps.

I used to get irritated years ago, because illegals had food stamps, and when they would open their wallets, they were filled with CASH! What is really going on there?

[Minnymouth]

Now the "system" has lots of checks and balances and in most states they will only pay for 2 children - no more.

My neice had her first child at 16, second at 20.. even though she married they were on assistance. After her divorce, she relied on the assistance and help from her parents. She said she would "never work" as long as she could get money from the state. Why should she? She had a home, food, medical paid, etc. She lived as good if not better than many folks that worked hard every day.

Well, years later laws in Ohio changed. Aid for only 2 children, and when the youngest child starts school - YOU WILL GO TO WORK to earn your assistance. SURPRISE!!!

When her youngest started school my neice was informed that she now had a job at Krogers, working 32 hours a week while her kids were in school. She thought that was GREAT until she found out that she was not going to get her checks from Krogers. The checks woud go to the state aid dept. from which she drew assistance. She made it clear she wasn't working anywhere and give HER CHECK to the state. So she walked out on the job.

She received a phone call from her case worker that if she did not return to work the next day, her state aid would be stopped. She didn't believe them and never returned to work.

Needless to say, she lost all benefits from the state. SHE THREW HERSELF A FIT......... but it was over!! AND AN EYE-OPENER!

NOW SHE HAD TO WORK, had to go find a job, and work to support herself and 2 kids with no state aid available to her.
And her dad/mom refused to help her unless she helped herself. They made it perfectly clear that they was NOT supporting her and her 2 children unless she worked 40+ hours, paid her own bills, etc.

We in the family all laughed our heads off, because she wanted to be a kept woman so she could party down..... and then this happened to "wake her up".....

On state aid she could have gone to school (turned it down), could have had medical cards on children (lost them) plus the food stamps etc.

Now she was and is still on her own - MAKE IT OR BREAK IT!!! Sorry about her luck, huh! She's had to make ends meet best way she can. Two jobs most of the time cause she quit high school and not diploma....

Back in the 70's was when the system was really abused. People had baby after baby, just to get the money for each kid. A friend of mine had 9 kids before the state said "you will get your tubes tied, or no more assistance". But they allowed her to have 9 kids before they said anything....

What was bad was she was drawing in her maiden name in one state and her ex was drawing on them in his name in another state.

She lived an hour from the state line, and when they did a home check at his house, she would send the kids to him and vise versa.

She lived extremely well. Nice home, new car, anything she wanted. She also worked and got paid in cash. Everything was put in her oldest son's name so her name appeared on nothing.

She got found out when Ohio started hunting for her ex for child support. They found him in Va drawing on the same kids. She moved in the middle of the nite and nobody has seen her since. It was either that or time in the pen.

Many folks abused the system until checks and balances were put in place. Some still try too, it's much harder now.

Now those that really need it, have trouble getting help.

It's nice to know that its not abused as much as it was before.

Everyone needs a helping hand sometime in their lifetime. But it wasn't designed for people "who just don't want to work for a living".....

And it sure was designed for a "lifetime free ride"......

[PaKettle]

I think welfare is fine for people who need help getting out of a hole, people who have lost a job or who have some other reason that they need help - health reasons, and so on.

I collected food stamps when I first came to California and didn't yet have a job and it was a big help.

My sister in law was recently getting food stamps because she just moved to a new state and hadn't found a job yet. Now she has a job and I assume they either cut off the food stamps or lowered the amount (she has 2 kids and no husband).

I personally wouldn't even mind if people could just say "I need some time off work for a year or so", or "I want to go back to school" and could get some temporary help that way. That makes more sense to me than spending the money on armaments and wars in places like Iraq.

What I do object to and what most people object to is when people abuse the system by living on welfare most of their adult life - having more kids so they can get more welfare and/or cheating the system - inventing kids on paper or things of that nature. I truly don't know how often that even happens nowadays but they said it used to happen a lot at one time.

I also object to people having more than a couple kids and then can't support them so they always need help. People shouldn't have more than 2 kids unless they are financially stable. Of course emergencies can happen to even those people and then that's fine if they need help.

The bottom line is, we are a rich country and we can afford to feed and house everyone, regardless of their situation; if only we had the will to force our government to make that more of a priority than fighting wars to make the rich richer.

[One Half Full]

My mother, a college educated woman, lost her six children because she could not get a job with reasonable pay, therefor could not feed us. We were given to an abusive, alcoholic. The same man who beat her regularly, broke her arm and her jaw, and kept her a virtual prisoner in her house. He was the one the judge sided with-- why? To avoid "a lifetime of welfare." Oh boy, don't get me started about what society owes its people.

I believe the soul of a nation can be seen in the way it takes care of its poor and those who need help. This is a rich nation in which no one should have to scrape by, and yet there are so many people who simply cannot make ends meet. Look at New Orleans during Katrina. It is strange that there are dozens of so called advanced nations that have better education, standard of living, medical care, and retirement pensions for their people. Everyone pisses and moans about the extra taxes they will pay. Sorry guys this is the trend. If I actually get something for my taxes, I don't really care. As it is, the US moans about not being able to afford health care-- duh. What is the war costing? I'm pretty sure we can afford universal health care. I'm sure I will be jumped on, but capitalism is a failed experiment. I have seen only corruption, corporate piracy, the greedy demolishing of entitlements, waste, greed-- you name it. A very few people have leverage. Everyone else seems to be cannon fodder. I personally think even more people should get food stamps. America has a vast over-production of basic commodities. Farmers are still paid not to produce too much. I know people on food stamps can't get things like candy (not good for them anyway) but can get decent basic food. I grew up at times at poverty level. I know what it is like to be the kid with holes in my shoes, and no lunch. We don't live in the time where you can get a mule and farm a few acres and shoot rabbits to live on. You need to get food somehow. If I ever need it, I hope it is there for me.

[FLBK7]

I'm sure I will be jumped on, but capitalism is a failed experiment. I have seen only corruption, corporate piracy, the greedy demolishing of entitlements, waste, greed-- you name it. A very few people have leverage. Everyone else seems to be cannon fodder.

I don't agree that capitalism in itself is a failed experiment, but UNREGULATED capitalism is. And unregulated capitalism is what we have, my friends.

In another thread we babyboomers were reminiscing about the 1960's. Economy-wise, I remember that in the 1960's America's middle class, the very backbone of our country, was very much alive, kicking, thriving. Today there's essentially only the wealthy and the poor, and the gap between the two continues to grow without any relief in sight.

My political philosophy is rather complex and I don't quite belong to any one party or school of thought. I'm moderate in certain issues and left of center in others. But I do get a kick out of watching Lou Dobbs on CNN. His "War on the Middle Class" theme really, really resonates with me!

[One Half Full]

I don't agree that capitalism in itself is a failed experiment, but UNREGULATED capitalism is. And unregulated capitalism is what we have, my friends.

Well, that is kind of the trouble, isn't it? What we have is not capitalism. It is a kind of anarchy where the businesses do essentially what they want, generally under the threat of "leaving" some state or place, and thus, not employing thousands of people. It is sort of like black mail. (I mean, what do you think happened when they found out they could have basically slave labor costs by moving to other countries-- lol) If you don't pass laws that allow us to charge 30 % interest, we won't base the company in your state. (Notice how credit card companies are spread around so that they can get "state" benefits from different states?

Allowing people to go unregulated, hoping they will regulate themselves with a handshake as a contract does not work. They end up saying, "show me where I said that. It's not in writing, so therefore it is null and void," or something of the kind.

That is why I believe that Privitization does not work. Those who believe in it, seem to also believe that these people are civic minded or something. Enron is a great example-- book cooking, side deals, false fronts etc. That is what businesses are like-- so as far as capitolism, I certainly would not want to have a government based on it. (Which is what we seem to have right now).

[PaKettle]

Well, it's clear that our system is not working for a large number of people int his country, for whatever the reason.

We are low on the list of industrialized nations with good health care and stats for long life and infant mortality.

We have way too many homeless people (5000 children homeless in Los Angeles alone!!!)

We have people without health insurance who cannot afford the medicine or care they need.

We have old folks living at poverty level who also cannot afford medicine and barely have a decent life.

We have people STARVING in this country!

We have tons of unemployment and out of control inflation.

Yet we are spending BILLIONS of dollars on a war in Iraq. Why, exactly, are we there, again?