Need some help bigtime-niece is being mistreated at her job

[FreshLikeADaisy]

That is so funny, Bandit! I've been thinking about it off and on all day and every time I do I get this big ol' dumb grin on my face...

Glad you've changed your style over the years (even if only for legal purposes) and I can't take revenge at all, I'm just not wired that way, but it's STILL hilarious!

[Bandit]

I hate to say this, but that's flat out hilarious!

That guy was one of the rudest, meanest, nastiest people I have ever worked for & I got fed up of him being mean & disrespectful to everyone. but yah...it was funny because he would never be able to prove what happened...but you know it had to wake the whole house up in the dead of the night!!

I was quite young & dumb then so I dont know if I would handle it that way now. I would probably go straight for his lincoln town car with all 18 wheels today just kidding

[FreshLikeADaisy]

hmmm, I will tell you all what I did one time with a creepy boss like that...I found out where he lived & went over in the wee hours of the morning, quietly backed up my rig to his home garage door, then BAM!! slammed it into his garage & went into it a few feet, then slammed it into drive & hauled out of there. I stayed on for a couple more weeks then quit without notice...Many moons ago & he never figured it out...

I hate to say this, but that's flat out hilarious!

[FreshLikeADaisy]

lol well my niece was sick with a doctor's note and went on sick leave without pay for 4 days with bron. and sinus and asthma (partially due to construcion and dust of new bldg) and today she was fired over the telephone! lol

You know, I'm with Lrprn -- I think the universe just did her a tremendous favor. I am sorry she lost her job, but there are others in much better places... that *don't* have Madame Guillotine working there.

In the meantime, she's got great grounds to get unemploment compensation, even though she was fired. It may take her applying, getting turned down, and then appealing, but she shouldn't have any problems once she gets a hearing. And that's if she even needs it -- she may get a new job right away and not need it at all!

That, and if she doesn't get her last paycheck in a timely manner, she needs to go ahead and call the Dept. of Labor Wage and Hour Division, and place a complaint. The university'll cough it up right fast. But first she should give them a chance to send it, at *least* a couple weeks. And if it has to be picked up, it would be much better for her to send her husband -- no need for her to ever go back.

If she had benefits through the university, she should make sure she gets her COBRA information in a timely manner as well so that she can decide what to do with her insurance. It will be a letter or packet that the university sends her.

I hope she gets well soon and I wish her all the best!!!

[lrprn]

lol well my niece was sick with a doctor's note and went on sick leave without pay for 4 days with bron. and sinus and asthma (partially due to construcion and dust of new bldg) and today she was fired over the telephone! lol

A blessing, no doubt. Glad she's out of that horrible place!

[Bandit]

hmmm, I will tell you all what I did one time with a creepy boss like that...I found out where he lived & went over in the wee hours of the morning, quietly backed up my rig to his home garage door, then BAM!! slammed it into his garage & went into it a few feet, then slammed it into drive & hauled out of there. I stayed on for a couple more weeks then quit without notice...Many moons ago & he never figured it out But I am sure his paranoia was at its best wondering who would do that to his house/garage. I never had any expectations of the man changing or treating people with respect, so that was how I dealt with it. He was the kind of boss who would give you a nice raise one week then take it away from you the next week (just because he could) & did this kind of crap to everyone.

YOu cannot expect people like that to change so it is best to move out & move on-everyone else working there at the time will figure it out & also eventually move on.

I am pretty sure everyone gets at least one or two jobs in life that turn out creepy in that way.

[BankruptPinoy]

lol well my niece was sick with a doctor's note and went on sick leave without pay for 4 days with bron. and sinus and asthma (partially due to construcion and dust of new bldg) and today she was fired over the telephone! lol

[Flamingo]

Just to clarify what I wrote and why I suggested the way I did:

I suspected, as BankruptPinoy later confirmed, that this manager is operating in an environment where HR already *knows but does not care* that she is doing this, and is assuming that the employee cannot or will not defend herself legally. It was already very clear that the manager was taking advantage of her youth and inexperience, but I felt that since that sort of behavior is very obvious that the powers-that-be were already familiar with it and didn't care. In a normal work environment, a manager that is a bully revolts his/her peers, in the same way that you and I would be revolted if we saw her do that to the OP's niece. But this isn't happening there, and that is a very telling sign to me. What the OP later wrote about UGA just confirmed all of that in my own mind.

(Big Snip of rest of Post)....

FreshLikeADaisy makes many marvelous points in her posting. The working environment for anyone out there is tough...however, proving discrimination on the job is even tougher. Many people when it occurs just leave due to the trauma of continuing to work there; fighters stay and have to put up with a lot. We all encounter it during our work years in one form or another - the bully supervisor, the "rules by intimidation" boss, the person in the next office who spreads lies about you, etc., etc. The key is how to handle it and what, if anything, can be done about it. Each situation is different. This bully woman boss of the niece could be on probation or under warning by the University for her on the job behavior. She may have never had anyone complain about her. You don't know and cannot find out unless those records are subpoenaed if a suit is brought agains the University. I laid out a set of steps in a prevoius post that need to be taken when one is confronted, at any age, on the job with any kind of harrassment. You always have the choice to leave or you can fight it. Fighting it requires a whole set of steps as Fresh indicated that are listed in the employee handbook which is given at hiring. HR has to be informed of the situation and it keeps track of all information on all employees. You'd be surprised some of the things that are in an employee's HR file. The EEOC sometimes is quicker than the one to two year lag stated, as we have had cases come in much sooner. And, yes, the General Counsel for a University or other corporation is off limits to an employee but is consulted by the employer when a discrimination action is either threatened or filed as to any further procedures by the company/corporation. Due to my position where I work, I cannot and will not post more about that as I work with this all the time.

To the OP - At this point unless there is some written documentation or emails or any witnesses to the verbal or physical bullying by your niece's boss, there is not much at this point that can be done. She should document the incidents and report to HR. She can request to be transferred to another area or she can leave. Or she can pursue it which can be difficult. Hopefully in her career as time goes on she will encounter better bosses and supervisors. I have worked for both and over time you learn how to handle the personalities and what or what not to do. You can also have your niece (you can go with her) consult a Labor Law layer for a short appointment as to her rights and she/you can talk opening with an expert about the whole situation and where to go. The consultation fee would be money well spent.

[epiphany]

Salamat po everyone! Thank you all so very much!

I appreciate all the consideration and thoughts. Yes, I will keep you guys posted.

This is happening at the University of Georgia.



Now, the quote above is referring to sexual harassment, but there are a lot of other improper things going on there.

If you search "Harassment documents+uga" on an Internet search engine site, you can see some cases of sexual harassment.

However, this is not a sexual issue with my niece.

Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts. It really is appreciated.

Would you mind posting the entire article? It's hard to form an unbiased opinion with just the snipets that support your
argument.

Not saying you are wrong, or bad, or anything like that, I would just like to see the whole thing.

ep

[FreshLikeADaisy]

Just to clarify what I wrote and why I suggested the way I did:

I suspected, as BankruptPinoy later confirmed, that this manager is operating in an environment where HR already *knows but does not care* that she is doing this, and is assuming that the employee cannot or will not defend herself legally. It was already very clear that the manager was taking advantage of her youth and inexperience, but I felt that since that sort of behavior is very obvious that the powers-that-be were already familiar with it and didn't care. In a normal work environment, a manager that is a bully revolts his/her peers, in the same way that you and I would be revolted if we saw her do that to the OP's niece. But this isn't happening there, and that is a very telling sign to me. What the OP later wrote about UGA just confirmed all of that in my own mind.

And yeah, that happens. Just because a company knows that their managers are misbehaving is no guarantee AT ALL that they are going to do anything about it, beyond punishing the person complaining.

While overt threats of legal action are well and good, the fact of the matter is that Title VII requires any potential action on a matter of harassment involving race, gender, etc be FIRST submitted to the EEOC, who will then determine IF a lawsuit can proceed, which must then be pursued in federal court within (IIRC) 6 months of receiving the right to sue from the EEOC. There is no such thing as suing for discrimination or harassment on your own: federal law requires that the complaint be found valid by the EEOC first.

The EEOC is, in any given city, anywhere between a year to three years backlogged with cases. That's a year to three years that the OP's niece would have to *wait* for ANY official action. Even if her own city's EEOC office is not backlogged, she would still have to receive the right to sue from them before she could act on any Title VII harassment action, AND be prepared to finance it upfront if she can't find a labor atty to take it on contingency.

The university knows this.

If the niece wants to take legal action **immediately**, she can't do so on the grounds of discrimination, period, and probably not harassment either. Discrimination/harassment = Title VII = EEOC = long, long wait. Hostile environment is a part of establishing such a case. She just cannot pursue this outside an EEOC complaint.

Which is why she has to keep her statements very vague: she has to present both the boss AND the powers-that-be (who are all very tolerant of this abusive work environment and are probably VERY invested in keeping it that way, because then there's always a crisis and a scapegoat to divert attention from real misbehavior and non-accomplishment) that she has something else in mind, that she's savvy enough to take it outside the university, and that she is smart enough to know how to handle it.

Now, as far as taping goes, I don't know what management has to do with it, because if she has a tape and a lawsuit to go with it, generally all she will need is a notarized transcript of the tape and be able to demonstrate when and where it was made. She needs no other assistance with it.

If this isn't already quite evident I *COMPLETELY* agree that HR departments are absolutely useless to the average employee. They are there primarily for one reason, and one reason only: to protect the company from employee lawsuits. HOWEVER, when pursuing legal action against a company, a labor lawyer will tell you upfront that you have to at least TRY. If you don't, and it gets to court, and the company can demonstrate that you did not go to HR or complain beyond your own boss, they have won their case: they did not corporately commit wrongdoing because they were unaware of the situation and were not given an opportunity to correct it. In fact, if you all look at your various employee handbooks, I guarantee that you will see grievance and complaint procedures outlined therein. This is not for your benefit. It is for theirs. This is why. So she's pretty much locked into trying HR at least once, if not twice, before moving forward with any hint of legal action.

You can bet this university has already been sued; whether they have a "legal" department (or one that is accessible to employees; many times in-house counsel are off-limits to regular employees) I really don't know. But again, OP's niece has to go by the employee handbook and at least make a show of following the written procedure regarding complaints; if she doesn't she has lost before she even starts to fight because it hands the company a solid defense. "We didn't know it was happening!" is a very, very strong corporate defense, and not just for employee lawsuits either.

All that said, it really depends on her particular situation. I don't think she's going to be able to address this directly with the bi-polar boss, because the essence of the mistreatment is already reprisal; in this case, for being out sick. It stands to reason that if she says something else to this boss, that mistreatment will escalate markedly, and that's what the boss is counting on, I think.

I'm no expert, but I've been around the block with this a few times in my own career, and it's much harder to actually do anything about it than people think, ESPECIALLY in an older, politically oriented self-perpetuating institution like a university. They count on people threatening lawsuits, and being able to swat back the few that are actually filed with bullshit defenses, all the while being VERY aware that such things are common in their workforce. They may even have little seminars on diversity -- even workplace violence -- but it doesn't mean jack s**t, because the culture itself is so incredibly dysfunctional to start with and wrongdoers are protected, not punished. To do otherwise in such a place would be for them to actually admit there's a problem, when everything they have built is predicated on the facade that there is no problem. To them, this bullying woman is not the problem, it's the little people who complain and make trouble and won't shut up about it that are the real problem. No, it's not right. But it's common.

All of y'all are welcome to disagree, as always. But if we could keep the "fat-ass 40 year old" comments to a minimum, I'd appreciate it muchly -- I'm a fat ass ***41*** year old and nothing like this broad you're talking about. Thanks!!!

[JollyGG]

I have always believed that the first step should always, always, always be to confront the situation directly first. She needs to tell this person that she does not like being treated that way, the behavior is unacceptable and if it continues she will go to HR.

It's doubtful, but perhaps this woman is unaware that she is causing your niece to be uncomfortable. Some people just seem to wander through life oblivious to other personal boundaries. It is unlikely that this is the case. But, the first step is to see if it can be resolved with a simple meeting between her and the supervisor.

It will undoubtedly be uncomfortable for both of them. But, it is also a good step in your niece’s growth and maturity to face a situation directly and deal with it.

If the situation escalates or doesn't stop then she needs to see HR. Realistically, however, the first thing HR will ask her is if she has approached the supervisor about how this behavior makes her feel. While HR reps should acknowledge that this is not always feasible. They of course prefer that it be address on a personal level as a first step.

However, your niece should document when she had this meeting and how it went in case she needs to go to HR. As other's have noted if HR is unresponsive there are additional steps she can take.

[tinroofrusted]

Salamat po everyone! Thank you all so very much!

I appreciate all the consideration and thoughts. Yes, I will keep you guys posted.

This is happening at the University of Georgia.



Now, the quote above is referring to sexual harassment, but there are a lot of other improper things going on there.

If you search "Harassment documents+uga" on an Internet search engine site, you can see some cases of sexual harassment.

However, this is not a sexual issue with my niece.

Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts. It really is appreciated.

Another thought:

if the boss is doing this in front of everyone, maybe turn the tables on the boss, and really loudly say something like "You are embarassing me, and humilating me and I don't like it. And this is illegal." That might stop it in it's tracks!

[BankruptPinoy]

Salamat po everyone! Thank you all so very much!

I appreciate all the consideration and thoughts. Yes, I will keep you guys posted.

This is happening at the University of Georgia.

...many UGA students and workers paint a different story.

"I feel there's a culture permitted here at the university in which harassment is acceptable," graduate student Philip Lewin said.

Lewin knows several women who've been harassed at UGA, he said, but fear retaliation if they complain. "I think there's a kind of culture here that prioritizes interest like research, basically money over the well-being of students," Lewin said.

Now, the quote above is referring to sexual harassment, but there are a lot of other improper things going on there.

If you search "Harassment documents+uga" on an Internet search engine site, you can see some cases of sexual harassment.

However, this is not a sexual issue with my niece.

Thanks to everyone for your kind thoughts. It really is appreciated.

[tinroofrusted]

Yikes!
This is not a good situation all around.

Has she actually confronted the woman and said "you need to stop touching me, and you are making me very uncomfortable with your suggestions and comments" or anything?

I understand she is in a position that she doesn't want to lose her job, but speaking up might actually shock the boss into stopping it. Plus the longer it goes on the more and more respect your niece will lose for herself.

[Flamingo]

While you are all giving good advice, no one is addressing the OP directly. There are steps that need and should be followed to document possible employment discrimination and a "hostile work environment." I suggest to the OP that she contact the EEOC and/or a Labor Law attorney to get further information as to state laws (they all vary) and what is required in that district to prove the above. If confronting or avoiding the person does not work, she can always leave the position if she does not want to stir the waters. HR also has certain steps that it must follow when something like this is reported. They also have to document items as to both employees. This woman herself may be building a case on the side with HR as to your neice if she does not like her or wants her fired. That is why I stated she needs to either (1) leave or (2) protect herself with an incident log, paper trail, witnesses, etc., and (3) go to HR and report HR. Many people have someone on the job like that and it can make it very hard to work there. HR has certain steps to take after an incident is reported and if this woman is already being counseled or under probation or a warning, she could get fired for continual infractions.

Best of luck to you and your niece...keep us posted!