Religion Discussion

[GoingDown]

Lots of tolerance on display here:


Indonesian protesters, police clash near US Embassy

By Presi Mandari (AFP) – 1 day ago

JAKARTA — Protesters hurled petrol bombs and clashed with Indonesian police outside the US Embassy in Jakarta on Monday, as demonstrations in the world's most populous Muslim nation turned violent.

Hundreds of people in Indonesia protested on Friday and Saturday against a low-budget film insulting to Muslims, but they had been largely peaceful.

That changed as demonstrators lobbed petrol bombs and shouted anti-American slogans. Riot police responded with bursts of water cannon and fired warning shots into the air to disperse about 700 protesters.

Police were also seen kicking or dragging away some protesters, as thick black smoke from petrol bombs wafted into the air. One policeman, bleeding in the face, was taken away in an ambulance.

"America, America go to hell!" demonstrators yelled, some carrying placards reading "death to America" or "behead those who insult Islam".

Many of them were supporters of hardline groups the Islamic Defenders Front, known for its unprovoked armed assaults on liberals, transsexuals and nightclubs, and the Jemaah Anshorut Tauhid, which was branded a terrorist organisation by the United States earlier this year.

The demonstrators were all dressed in identical white Muslim garb and some were armed with slingshots.

Several hundred police in riot gear and at least two armoured vehicles guarded the embassy, together with a pair of water cannon and a fire engine.

Central Jakarta police chief Angesta Romano Yoyol estimated the number of protesters at 700. He said seven policemen had been injured in the clashes and taken to hospital.

Jakarta police spokesman Rikwanto, who goes by one name, confirmed that some of the protesters were arrested, but said he did not immediately know how many.

"We used tear gas, water cannon and warning shots, which are in accordance with standard procedures for violent protests of this kind," he said.

He did not say if police were firing live ammunition or blanks.

Earlier Monday, about 50 students trampled on the American flag and threw eggs at a US diplomatic mission in the city of Medan, capital of North Sumatra province, an AFP reporter at the scene said.

The "Innocence of Muslims" film, thought to have been produced by a small group of Christian extremists in the United States, has sparked violent anti-American protests across the Islamic world.

The movie mocks the Prophet Mohammed and portrays Muslims as immoral and gratuitously violent. [I wonder why? ]

Indonesia's Communications and Information Ministry spokesman Gatot Dewa Broto told AFP on Sunday that YouTube's parent company Google had begun restricting access to videos of the film.

But the videos could still be viewed on Monday.

"We understand that it takes time for Google to block everything as people continue to upload those sensitive videos. We appreciate Google's cooperation," Broto said

[GoingDown]

Ah, you'r being a simpleton. When you live in a country with out hope, have a first grade education and military/neptoism dominated economy, ones ignorance of the world takes hold. They don't how others live in the rest of the world. The riots are pressure valve for those who are angry with no opportunity similar what happened in LA. All you need is a spark to ignite everyday anger. The United States foreign policy has been to prop up these authoritarian regimes at the expense of the people. You have to see it on their end how US policy has harmed their lives.

Last I heard, Indonesia with the largest Islamic population which recognizes over a dozen religions along with Malaysia have been peaceful. Even our Muslim citizens have gone about their lives. The only noise I hear everyday is when the Christian fundamentals are attempting to impose their god into every day life.

Now, let's not let this devolve into personal attacks against me. Thank you.

The Muslims are also rioting in London, England, and Sydney, Australia. Are those countries without hope, as you describe them?

They're rioting in Indonesia as well. So much for their tolerance.

The rise of Islam in western countries such as England and Australia is the most troubling to me. If they want to impose their will upon the masses in their own countries, fine, but when they come to our countries and start throwing a violent temper tantrum because they don't get their way, that's quite a different story.

Which system would you rather live under? The western system which pretty much lets people do whatever they want to do and believe whatever they want to believe (or not believe in the case of skeptics like me), within the bounds of reason, or one that imposes its will upon the masses under penalty of death?

What surprises me the most is that women's groups such as N.O.W., in this country are pretty much silent about Islam. They're treated like second-class citizens (and in some cases like a man's personal property) in Saudi Arabia (where Islam was founded, remember?), and most of the middle eastern countries, and yet, not a peep out of N.O.W. Why is that?

"All women, regardless of age, are required to have a male guardian. Women cannot vote or be elected to high political positions. Saudi Arabia prohibits women from driving. All females must have a male guardian, typically a father or husband. The guardian has duties to, and rights over, the woman in many aspects of civic life. Depending on the guardian, women may need their guardian's permission for: marriage and divorce; travel, if under 45; education; employment; opening a bank account; elective surgery, particularly when sexual in nature."

[jacko]

Ah, you'r being a simpleton. When you live in a country with out hope, have a first grade education and military/neptoism dominated economy, ones ignorance of the world takes hold. They don't how others live in the rest of the world. The riots are pressure valve for those who are angry with no opportunity similar what happened in LA. All you need is a spark to ignite everyday anger. The United States foreign policy has been to prop up these authoritarian regimes at the expense of the people. You have to see it on their end how US policy has harmed their lives.

Last I heard, Indonesia with the largest Islamic population which recognizes over a dozen religions along with Malaysia have been peaceful. Even our Muslim citizens have gone about their lives. The only noise I hear everyday is when the Christian fundamentals are attempting to impose their god into every day life.

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

A video of some weirdo's opinions about a religion vs. police officers brutally beating an African American.

Freedom of speech, freedom of religion vs. brutal beating.



I think there is a difference there.

A person could simply ignore the video. Or you could condemn the video with words. You could even post your own video on YouTube where you said what you thought and felt about the video, and you could even go point by point and say exactly why you think the video is wrong, and even present evidence to prove your point. Wouldn't that be better than killing people over a silly video made by a weirdo?


The Islamic world hates the very idea of the freedom of speech, and the freedom of religion.

I personally want to have the freedom to believe in no religion-- that when we die, that's the end of us.


I say mind your own business, but that's not how they feel about it:


Hezbollah leader calls for international law against insulting Islam and says people who support offensive Mohammed film 'should be punished'

In a move that could escalate tensions around the Arab world, the leader of the Hezbollah militant group called for protests against the movie and said the U.S. must be held accountable for the film.

In a televised speech, Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah pushed for the creation of an international law that would ban insults of Islam and other religions, citing similar laws that exist to prevent anti-Semitism.

His outrage stems from the anti-Islam film produced by a mysterious convict based in California, that has since sparked protests outside American embassies in the Middle East and across the globe.

'We should not only express our anger at an American embassy here or there. We should tell our rulers in the Arab and Muslim world that it is "your responsibility in the first place" and since you officially represent the governments and states of the Muslim world you should impose on the United States, Europe and the whole world that our prophet, our Quran and our holy places and honor of our Prophet be respected,' he said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz26jlrSDt0

[GoingDown]

The so called christians don't get a pass, either. In this day and age, the Catholic church moves pedophile priests from one parish, where they preyed on innocent children, to another parish thinking that that cured them. And all that accomplished was to have more innocent children victimized by the pedophile priests.

I'm sure if you looked hard enough you would find similar atrocities being committed by people in leadership positions in the religion of Islam.

Power corrupts people.

Those evil priests are not raping children in response to some video on YouTube. They are very sick and twisted individuals, and should be punished.

It's not just the leaders of Islam that are rioting in the streets. Ordinary followers of the religion are rioting in the streets.

The point I was making is that you will not find Christians rioting in the streets just because someone put their founder-- Jesus-- in a jar of urine and then put it on display as art, and even got government funding for it.

Can you imagine if someone put the founder of Islam (you notice I am actually afraid to say his name here because of what Muslims might think if they read this) in a jar of urine, put it on display in an art museum, and got money from the government to fund it? Can you imagine what would happen to that museum?

But no, Christians didn't riot in the streets, kill people over it, etc.

I am saying there is a difference in the way people in these different religions act.

Let's take Buddhism for an example. What do you think the Buddhists would do if we made a silly YouTube video saying horrible things about the Dalai Lama? My guess is they would not riot in the streets about it. They are truly a religion of peace. If I was going to follow any religion, I would pick that one. But a funny thing happens with belief. Once you stop believing in something, it's nearly impossible to get it back. I'm skeptical of all religions and the afterlife. And I can't get back to where I once was as a child. It's kind of like Santa Clause. At one time I believed in him and then I saw my parents wrapping the Christmas gifts late at night, and I never could believe in Santa after that.

[GoingDown]

The youtube anti muslim video was the spark that ignited the frustrations of every day life in the Arab world were unemployment among the young is 50 percent or higher. The Rodney King trial acquittals of the officers was the spark that ignited the riots that has festered over decades of neighborhood neglect along with Police brutality.

You're comparing apples and oranges here.

A video of some weirdo's opinions about a religion vs. police officers brutally beating an African American.

Freedom of speech, freedom of religion vs. brutal beating.

I think there is a difference there.

A person could simply ignore the video. Or you could condemn the video with words. You could even post your own video on YouTube where you said what you thought and felt about the video, and you could even go point by point and say exactly why you think the video is wrong, and even present evidence to prove your point. Wouldn't that be better than killing people over a silly video made by a weirdo?


The Islamic world hates the very idea of the freedom of speech, and the freedom of religion.

I personally want to have the freedom to believe in no religion-- that when we die, that's the end of us.


I say mind your own business, but that's not how they feel about it:


Hezbollah leader calls for international law against insulting Islam and says people who support offensive Mohammed film 'should be punished'

In a move that could escalate tensions around the Arab world, the leader of the Hezbollah militant group called for protests against the movie and said the U.S. must be held accountable for the film.

In a televised speech, Hezbollah leader Sheik Hassan Nasrallah pushed for the creation of an international law that would ban insults of Islam and other religions, citing similar laws that exist to prevent anti-Semitism.

His outrage stems from the anti-Islam film produced by a mysterious convict based in California, that has since sparked protests outside American embassies in the Middle East and across the globe.

'We should not only express our anger at an American embassy here or there. We should tell our rulers in the Arab and Muslim world that it is "your responsibility in the first place" and since you officially represent the governments and states of the Muslim world you should impose on the United States, Europe and the whole world that our prophet, our Quran and our holy places and honor of our Prophet be respected,' he said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz26jlrSDt0

[helpmeout]

As for Christians, they definitely had a bloody past, but that was a long time ago when they did such things. So did the Muslims back then.

But with Muslims, they're still doing it.

The so called christians don't get a pass, either. In this day and age, the Catholic church moves pedophile priests from one parish, where they preyed on innocent children, to another parish thinking that that cured them. And all that accomplished was to have more innocent children victimized by the pedophile priests.

[jacko]

The youtube anti muslim video was the spark that ignited the frustrations of every day life in the Arab world were unemployment among the young is 50 percent or higher. The Rodney King trial acquittals of the officers was the spark that ignited the riots that has festered over decades of neighborhood neglect along with Police brutality.

I was raised in a very religious and superstitious home. Bluegrass gospel music was what my family listened to all the time while I was growing up in rural Oregon. We were about as close to hillbillies as you could get in the modern era.

I rebelled against it, and moved to Arizona to attend A.S.U. and majored in Biology, and I became quite agnostic, and skeptical of everything.

At this point, I don't even believe in an afterlife at all. I think we just stop existing. We go back to whatever we were before the moment of conception.

With that being said, I have got to say that I am worried about the rise of Islam.

Modern day Christians, Jews, and Buddhists will pretty much leave you alone and let you believe whatever you want to believe and say whatever you want to say, without rioting in the streets and trying to burn down buildings and kill people.

Not so with Islam.

Cartoons and silly YouTube videos about their founder cause them to riot in the streets and burn flags, destroy buildings, and even kill people.

Does anyone else see how ridiculous this all is?

And yet our government seems to be apologizing for some weirdo posting a silly video on YouTube. Who cares? He has the freedom of speech right to say whatever he wants to say about Islam or any religion. If you don't like what he said, you can ignore him or post a video response to what he said on YouTube. But don't be so thin-skinned about it.

When "artists" put Jesus on a cross in a glass of urine, Catholics didn't riot in the streets and kill people over it.

Does anyone see a difference between these two religions?

Why are we (our government, our media) making excuses for these people? Why don't we hold them to the same standards?

This may sound awful to some people, but from what I am seeing on t.v. about the way Islamic people believe and behave around the world, I think I would rather be surrounded by Buddhists, Christians, Jews, and atheists, than by Muslims. I don't think I would feel very safe living in a Muslim neighborhood.

[GoingDown]

Personally, I wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood that is full of fanatics, regardless of their religion.

I agree with you on that.

As for Christians, they definitely had a bloody past, but that was a long time ago when they did such things. So did the Muslims back then.

But with Muslims, they're still doing it. They haven't outgrown that phase. They haven't gone through a reformation yet. Just turn on your t.v. and watch the news.

A cartoon or a silly YouTube video is enough to make them riot, burn flags, destroy buildings, and kill people.

I think there is a bit of difference between the two religions in terms of modern day violence.

And it doesn't seem to be limited to just a few fringe fanatics with Muslims. It seems like they fill the streets of their communities with angry and enraged people rioting over trivial issues.

I personally wouldn't feel safe living in one of their neighborhoods.

I wonder if, perhaps, all this rioting, rage, violence, and killing is starting to backfire for them. I know after the events of the last 15 years, I have no sympathy left for them.

Do you still have any sympathy left for them?

[helpmeout]

Have you done much research into the origins of religion? Because the Christian religion is one very scary, bloody and violent religion. Not sure about the others.

It doesn't matter what the religion is, fanatics are going to continue to kill in the name of religion. And if there was no religion, well, they would just come up with another excuse to kill.

Personally, I wouldn't want to live in a neighborhood that is full of fanatics, regardless of their religion.

[GoingDown]

I was raised in a very religious and superstitious home. Bluegrass gospel music was what my family listened to all the time while I was growing up in rural Oregon. We were about as close to hillbillies as you could get in the modern era.

I rebelled against it, and moved to Arizona to attend A.S.U. and majored in Biology, and I became quite agnostic, and skeptical of everything.

At this point, I don't even believe in an afterlife at all. I think we just stop existing. We go back to whatever we were before the moment of conception.

With that being said, I have got to say that I am worried about the rise of Islam.

Modern day Christians, Jews, and Buddhists will pretty much leave you alone and let you believe whatever you want to believe and say whatever you want to say, without rioting in the streets and trying to burn down buildings and kill people.

Not so with Islam.

Cartoons and silly YouTube videos about their founder cause them to riot in the streets and burn flags, destroy buildings, and even kill people.

Does anyone else see how ridiculous this all is?

And yet our government seems to be apologizing for some weirdo posting a silly video on YouTube. Who cares? He has the freedom of speech right to say whatever he wants to say about Islam or any religion. If you don't like what he said, you can ignore him or post a video response to what he said on YouTube. But don't be so thin-skinned about it.

When "artists" put Jesus on a cross in a glass of urine, Catholics didn't riot in the streets and kill people over it.

Does anyone see a difference between these two religions?

Why are we (our government, our media) making excuses for these people? Why don't we hold them to the same standards?

This may sound awful to some people, but from what I am seeing on t.v. about the way Islamic people believe and behave around the world, I think I would rather be surrounded by Buddhists, Christians, Jews, and atheists, than by Muslims. I don't think I would feel very safe living in a Muslim neighborhood.

[reddy2011]

Is there any religion apart from Mankind ?

[AngelinaCatHub]

Quote Originally Posted by AngelinaCat View Post
I wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole!

At this time not even Czech, or Russian.

[sunshinepa]

I wouldn't touch this with a ten-foot pole!

Make mine a 25 footer.........LOL!

[Toughguy]

I would say Ram Jesus and Alla are all equal to me ! and am happy with it ! so i guess its better for me to keep a distance to this thread !

[disconapper]

Thought I'd share this with the Forum. I agree with goodyphilips, there really is no point in arguing over religion. However, yesterday, the WBC was at a local military base protesting in the name of God, targeting the youth of military personnel. I attended the protest, being a military brat myself and a long family history of military service, I was deeply offended. Most people, when it comes to religion, have deep personal beliefs. But, when people use religion as a platform for hate mongering, well, I have a problem with that. And that's just my two sense....