Religion Discussion

[bmrigs]

You know we know a quy who majored in religion in a local college, and he was taught that exact thing. I don't necessarily agree, but he sure does.

Hey I love your quote from John Adams.

We can agree to disagree That quote has so much meaning. I would say that conquering a nation through debt is the worst form. By the sword you can see your occupiers. But by debt, the enemy is invisible. He is not walking the streets with weapons to subdue you. Jefferson once said that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies. They can starve a nation by stangling its economy and you dont need one soldier to do it.

[justplaintired]

Yes all these books are fiction. Even the works in Hinduism and Buddhism. Religion originates in the minds of men.

You know we know a quy who majored in religion in a local college, and he was taught that exact thing. I don't necessarily agree, but he sure does.

Hey I love your quote from John Adams.

[bmrigs]

I'm curious if you think that the Torah or the Qur'an are works of fiction?

Yes all these books are fiction. Even the works in Hinduism and Buddhism. Religion originates in the minds of men.

[Scott50]

Bandit, do you really think that Christians can come to an agreement on bankruptcy when there is 100's of denominations and they are all going into different directions with their beliefs?? One church only accepts the NIV version of the Bible, the other only KJV. One church says its ok to drink because Jesus turned water into wine, the other says no its an abomination. And on and on. They all claim to have a or THE "holy spirit" in them and they all have different ideas of what is right or wrong. Can it be from God? One holy ghost and they're all going in different directions. Anybody can take that fiction called the Bible and make a religion out of it.

I'm curious if you think that the Torah or the Qur'an are works of fiction?

[AngelinaCatHub]

From Bandit;

I just lost/gave up a very good friend over that. I was so tired of her coming here & shoving her prayers & beliefs at me especially at the dinner table. One night I said, "I will pray this time." So I said my little thing that I felt was good & thankful.

[rfassett]

robivi3, very, very well put. Your point about understanding the Bible from the point of time it was written and with the original language, and applying it to today is very well stated. That is what I have done and continue to do. Without that backgroud, a lot of the things in the Bible just do not make much sense. Anyway, thanks for posting!

[robivi3]

If you look at the OT there was debt forgiveness, there was also a curse on those who oppressed strangers and those who joined "field to field", in other words loaning on farms that they new would fall into foreclosure. If you want to get into archeological issues and such you go back to the time of Judges to the conversion to Kings and see how wealth shifted from the middle class to the hands of the few. Bankruptcy is a right in the US. While the Bible has concrete lessons and morality you have to understand the first century. We live in different times and not that time. In truth love forgives debt and many debts would have been held with usery by those with wealth who converted. Alot is misunderstood concerning the Bible and it is understandable. We try looking at things through a 20th century mind only.

Many of the commands concerning say, women are looked at in modern context and not as being in a time when for the most part women were absolute chattel and afforded no respect. Female children could be killed as could a disobedient wife whereas the law might forbid killing an Ox outright. Yes, we hear about the women who were gladiators or broke the mold. they were RARE, one billionth of one percent. I think if Paul were writing from an American prison today his words would change to match the times but basic principles of forgiveness, respect, etc... would remain. Cultural issues would be different. Dogma on minor issues produces narrow minded fanatics, we are small in the Universe and make alot of pretence about knowing so much. Even the Pope needs to be humble, he knows no more about how God said "Light be, and light was" (the original language) than the lowest caste in India. How can dust mites pretend to know the mind of God and blow people up or kill people in the name of any group?????

What makes me believe Christ is real is not any Preacher or anything like that. It is when I see people who were going one way and then become another person. I don't mean a dope addict who gives up dope and is just a reformed addict still with the same nature, but when I see the nature of the person absolutely changed and the desires of that person changed for the better. that makes me believe because i have seen that with people from different backgrounds. And in that light it does not make me any better than the worst person, it just fascinates me to see a persons character change. that goes beyond any Dogma, God allows for alot of errors on our part.

[fltoo]

Well said Emma

In 1977 my Catholic grandmother died. My newly converted Jehovah's Witness cousin sat through his grandmother's burial Mass disregarding the standing and kneeling required during the Catholic burial.

I was young, but remember thinking, how can someone be so quickly and utterly brainwashed to this level of disrespect?

Witnesses believe that if you are not of their faith, you will not be granted access into heaven. I am sure Grandma has been looking down on him and laughing all these years.

I am not religious but live by one faith....do no evil, but try to do something for someone every day that you live, for doing nothing is evil, also.

Whenever I feel sorry for myself about BK, I take 25 bucks out of my very tight budget and donate it to a soup kitchen or a woman's shelter. I don't believe in tithing to a church unless it goes directly to a charity. I am not into buying gold chalices.

Time for a rude awakening.

[Bandit]

This is a very enlightened thread. It makes me smile

I must admit, I was initially afraid to read it after living across the street from two families of evangelical Christians who would try and convert us. I'm am truly happy for those who have found enlightenment through their spiritual path - be it Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, whateverism. All I ask is that you respect the fact that I've found my enlightmentment on my own path.

Here's where I get miffy: if I am a guest in your home then by all means I absolutely respect your wishes, beliefs, rituals, customs. Prayers before meals, lighting the Sabbath candles, its all good. If you truly feel I must be converted or saved then I will gladly take your good will and blessings and understand that they come from only the best place possible. But please, for the love all that is Good and Holy, don't knock on my door on a Saturday morning and try and convert me when you haven't been invited over and I'm still in my pajamas! Gotta admit, it really harshes my mellow when my neighbor stands on MY doorstep telling me that I am going to Hell because I don't believe in Jesus in the exact same way they do.

Elvis Costello sang it best - what's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?

I feel the same way. If you just dont see it one way then you have to search on your own or else you are not being honest to yourself. I had one Christian tell me that all of us who think for ourselves have reasoned our way straight to hell...that was of the evangelical type. Total politics & fear based.

I just lost/gave up a very good friend over that. I was so tired of her coming here & shoving her prayers & beliefs at me especially at the dinner table. One night I said, "I will pray this time." So I said my little thing that I felt was good & thankful.

Afterward She says, "Oh no, that will never do." Then she outprays me with her own prayer at my own dining room table. We had words after that & I told her she is not welcome here if she cannot respect my beliefs & my home by trying to shove her christian beliefs on me.

We had become close for a good 5 years but she was wearing me out with church dogma & all these insane beliefs CONSTANTLY. We have not spoken in months & I am doing just fine without it.

[EmmaPeel007]

This is a very enlightened thread. It makes me smile

I must admit, I was initially afraid to read it after living across the street from two families of evangelical Christians who would try and convert us. I'm am truly happy for those who have found enlightenment through their spiritual path - be it Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, whateverism. All I ask is that you respect the fact that I've found my enlightmentment on my own path.

Here's where I get miffy: if I am a guest in your home then by all means I absolutely respect your wishes, beliefs, rituals, customs. Prayers before meals, lighting the Sabbath candles, its all good. If you truly feel I must be converted or saved then I will gladly take your good will and blessings and understand that they come from only the best place possible. But please, for the love all that is Good and Holy, don't knock on my door on a Saturday morning and try and convert me when you haven't been invited over and I'm still in my pajamas! Gotta admit, it really harshes my mellow when my neighbor stands on MY doorstep telling me that I am going to Hell because I don't believe in Jesus in the exact same way they do.

Elvis Costello sang it best - what's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?

[Bandit]

From Big John:



When Jesus was washed with fine oils and spices one disciple asked, could that not be sold for the poor? He answered the poor will be with us always, he would not. (don't quote me pls)

That was Judas. he wanted the spices from one of the marys & the jesus told him no & Judas carried the bag of money. the person writing suggests that judas would take it to steal it. iT was a good metaphor for how people appear to be doing good but have bad intentions all the while. You said dont quote you but I had to
& he was refering to people killing him later.

I also have my own Patch story, only his name is Joe. Three times tried helping & three times after helping, he got thrown out for drinking & not going to work when he went on his own...now he is in a halfway house & I feel very taken advantage of, but I learned & no real harm was done.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Big John we've moved

From Big John:

When it comes to the various religions; most people have a religion but know almost nothing about their religion. So how can a person provide an answer abbout their religion?

As for Christianity and bankruptcies; what Jesus taught and his examples should provide us with the needed answer.

Jesus was a Jew and died under the Law as a Jew. It wasn't till after his death that his followers became 'Christians'. His early followers conducted their meeting in Temples as if they were a sect of Judiaism.

Jesus' form of Judiasm taught forgiveness, compassion, and minding one's one business. His early followers who had some wealth would sell some of their belongings so their poorer brothers would be provided. It would seem they practiced a form of Socialism that truly benefited everybody instead of a just few.

If Jesus were asked about bankruptcy, he would probably speak about what caused the financial crisis and then look for a solution. Compassion would be wrapped up in his answer but wisdom would also be displayed. The true condition of the person's heart would come forth which would direct what kind of answer to present.

Yes I do agree. There are many parables in the Bible. Things such as "the love of money is the root of all evil". It is not money hard earned, but the love of having it for it's own sake. Some may call it power.
I don't believe Jesus would wish a Socialistic system and if it were not for such easy give a ways in this country, we would not have such a class of people who harvests babies for the income. There will always be poor. That is Biblical too. When Jesus was washed with fine oils and spices one disciple asked, could that not be sold for the poor? He answered the poor will be with us always, he would not. (don't quote me pls) He also said easier for a wealthy man .....needle....etc. but he meant the greedy wealthy. Our nation is a very generous nation. We rebuilt our enemies after defeating them. We take care of our poor. It is our Government over taxing us that will doom the poor and the free giving when we have to take care of our own first.

Several of us took on a project for a known street person called 'Patch'. He had only one eye. He lived on the street. Not shaven, shorn, and dirty. We offered to send him to his home. Contacted family and cleaned him up, fed him, got him clothes, gave him a motel to rest and a train ticket with boxed lunch and some pocket money. Three months later, from Indiana back to Florida is Patch, living on the street. That is all I can say. 'Hub

[Bandit]

Bandit, do you really think that Christians can come to an agreement on bankruptcy when there is 100's of denominations and they are all going into different directions with their beliefs?? One church only accepts the NIV version of the Bible, the other only KJV. One church says its ok to drink because Jesus turned water into wine, the other says no its an abomination. And on and on. They all claim to have a or THE "holy spirit" in them and they all have different ideas of what is right or wrong. Can it be from God? One holy ghost and they're all going in different directions. Anybody can take that fiction called the Bible and make a religion out of it.

answer? NO.
I am not sure how many bibble versions there are but they fight over that too, which version is the right one. LOL! yet each group says you cant change it any more...any more than what we already have.

Making the bible mean whatever you want it to mean because, just because... tampering with it since day one, depending on which institution wants it to say. There was just too much added, edited & deleted, which explains why they cannot agree on all those issues they make.

& no, it cant all be from god that is why I feel
a) they all have a different god, like the jehovas witness god, the catholic god, the mormon god, the pentecostal god, the baptist god......
b) just make it up & say, "god said you have to do this"...for control over the people.

I prefer thinking & searching for myself in both religion & politics it is the only place I have found real freedom....after all, this god or whatever, gave me the brain to think & search for myself.

[Bandit]

This a decent place to see cherokee culture, art, religion, linguistics, legends with older & more recent history of them prevailing before the white man came:

of course I do not believe all of this stuff but some of it is part of who I am

http://www.native-languages.org/cherokee_culture.htm

a brief look into the native american history & religions while being scattered:

Many followers of Native American spirituality, do not regard their spiritual beliefs and practices as a "religion" in the way in which many Christians do. Their beliefs and practices form a integral and seamless part of their very being.



Estimates of the numbers of Native North Americans at the time of the European arrival/invasion in what is now the United States and Canada vary between 1.15 to 12 million. By the end of the 19th century, the number of Native Americans had been reduced to 250,000, mainly through imported diseases, dislocation, slavery, mass murder and assimilation. 1 Many of the survivors converted to Christianity. A resurgence of Aboriginal faith is currently underway.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/nataspir.htm

& the modern cherokee

http://www.cherokee.org/

[bmrigs]

These christians say filing bankruptcty is of the wicked:

http://www.gotquestions.org/bankruptcy.html

but these Christans say it is ok:

http://www.christian-attorney.net/bible_bankruptcy.html

after searching at several christian forums on BK, it appears to be at the low end of the pole for discussion. Over all, most christians do not make an issue over filing which is why ( I said this before) I think it has little to do with the religion & has everything to do with attitude & character.

Bandit, do you really think that Christians can come to an agreement on bankruptcy when there is 100's of denominations and they are all going into different directions with their beliefs?? One church only accepts the NIV version of the Bible, the other only KJV. One church says its ok to drink because Jesus turned water into wine, the other says no its an abomination. And on and on. They all claim to have a or THE "holy spirit" in them and they all have different ideas of what is right or wrong. Can it be from God? One holy ghost and they're all going in different directions. Anybody can take that fiction called the Bible and make a religion out of it.